Push and pull factors in transitioning

[GCScot]

People's motivations in making a change can be categorised into 'push' and 'pull' factors. 'Push' factors are your dissatisfaction with your current state. 'Pull' factors are the perceived advantages of another state.

I started thinking about the possible push and pull factors for people transitioning their gender. It made me realise that there are two distinct groups:

Group 1 = mainly motivated by push factors. i.e. they are unhappy with their sexed body. They include:

• Women/girls with internalised misogyny

• Gay people with internalised homophobia

• Non-genderconforming autistic people who have internalised sexist stereotypes as fact

• Survivors of abuse/trauma who are trying to protect themselves from future abuse/trauma

Group 2 = mainly motivated by pull factors. i.e. they are attracted to being/being perceived to be the opposite sex. They include:

• People who are sexually aroused by the idea of themselves being the opposite sex (AGP/AAP)

• People who think they can gain a personal advantage (sporting/competitive/sexual access) by claiming to be the opposite sex

Group 1 are mainly children and young adults, especially girls. They have gender dysphoria. Because they are trying to permanently and convincingly escape their sexed bodies, they are more likely to undergo medical modifications (surgery, artificial hormones). They have a diverse range of vulnerabilities as a result of their own personal life experiences and the prejudices of society

Group 2 are mainly adult men. We might say they have gender euphoria. Because they aren't trying to escape their sexed bodies they are unlikely to undergo medical modification, preferring temporary and superficial modifications such as clothes, make up, prosthetics, names and pronouns. The majority of the aggressive vocal TRAs come from this group

TRAs deliberately merge the two groups

They know they can utilise the sincerity, vulnerability and innocence of Group 1:
Trans appears in childhood - it must be innate!
Trans appears in childhood - it can't be sexually motivated!
Trans people have gender dysphoria - they're vulnerable!
Look at the lengths they'll go to (surgery, hormones) - they must be genuine!

But when it comes to the motivations of trans people, the TRAs suddenly switch track. They emphasise the pull factor acting on Group 2 ("wanting to be a wo/man") rather than the push factor acting on Group 1 (trying to escape your sexed body). Because any detailed discussion of just why someone might want to escape their body would raise awkward questions about whether wanting to transition is really a cause for celebration and affirmation.

I think it's very important we distinguish between the two groups when discussing objections to gender ideology. They are very different groups with different motivations and consequences. I think part of the reason so many trans allies are resistant to changing their opinions or even discussing the issue is because most of the trans people they know are Group 1s. They recognise these people's sincerity and vulnerability and have been duped by Group 2 TRAs into not examining the underlying push and pull factors of transition

Great analysis, have been drafting stuff along the same lines myself.

Thanks, that's well put.

I do think that the two groups you have identified can overlap, though. For example, particularly if he's autistic, a man may be trying to escape the expectations that society imposes on men and at the same time be attracted to a libertarian ideology that excuses his sexual desires. Not that desires are necessarily wrong in themselves, but it's easy to justify to oneself behaviour that is problematic.

I think this analysis makes a lot of sense. I'd add that plenty of AGP men take Oestrogen and have breast implants. Although many fewer have genital surgery.

It's also interesting to think where non binary people fit in here. Perhaps they experience only push factors and no pull to the opposite sex?

Yes, I agree there can be some overlap, both within and between the groups

I suppose the groups represent two nuclei of motivations. Because people are complex, they can have multiple motivations. Maybe it's not binary 😜

I find it helpful to separate and classify the two sets of motivations because I think they need different approaches - sympathy and gentle talking therapy for the first (or at least watchful waiting) and firm boundaries for the second, on an understanding that people can live their lives how they like up until the point it affects others. And TRAs are affecting others

Thank you. That's an excellent articulation of what I've long thought.

Of course that's not an exhaustive list of push factors (before anyone tries to shoot down your post for failing to include one).

And I agree with @RapidOnsetGenderCritic that there will often be a bit more complexity in real-life cases.

Perhaps it's helpful to see the factors as falling in two groups, rather than people as falling in two distinct groups?

But it can still be the case that a given person's factors come predominantly from one or the other group, so your observations in your last 2 paragraphs continue to stand – and are very important.

X-post with you saying essentially the same.

Well done speaking to absolutely zero trans people, failing to read what they and their families have to say - and absorbing a lot of online propaganda.

Trans people are born, not made. They are a tiny minority.

Trans boys and men are more at risk when they transition. They experience more sexual harassment and abuse than before. It's incredibly ignorant of you not to know this - but unsurprising, I suppose.

Dear god seek help. Wasting your life explaining why a minority you don't belong to exists is not normal behaviour. Conspiracy theories are not people, life is not a computer game and malicious transphobia (which is what all of the above is) is not a public service.

Mary Whitehouse would've been proud of you, but Dr Science is running screaming from the building.

(Yes, I know, backing away from a life devoted to reds-under-the-bed style conspiracy theories would leave your life quite empty, but try. It's worth it. Dear sweet Jesus on a paddleboard juggling pineapples, what a completely ignorant load of nonsense.)

The non-binary identifying people that I personally am acquainted with fit into Group 1 as gender-nonconforming autistic people. They've realised that they have a mix of traits which don't fully match their sex and have classified themselves as neither male nor female. Non-binary is their tribe. In another generation they may have found a different tribe, probably an alternative one like hippy, grebo, goth, punk, emo

Not sure if that's how others see it - I'm interested in others' opinions

Your posts always assume posters haven't spoken to any trans people, don't know any trans people, aren't related to any trans people. You are wrong.

And you don't belong to this minority either.

Is there not also a group of people who don't feel they fit into society, without being autistic, and are trying to solve the puzzle of where they might fit better? Some of them are perhaps depressed or struggling with life.

Trans boys and men are more at risk when they transition. They experience more sexual harassment and abuse than before.

We're talking about what motivates people to become trans-identifying. They may be mistaken about what transition will do to their risk of abuse (although I doubt that they are), but that doesn't mean that wasn't a motivation.

They are certainly sometimes mistaken about what it will do to their bodies, their relationships, and their physical and mental health.

@GCScot, Sarah Mittermaier (posted online as Eliza Mondegreen) has done a fair amount of research into this - particularly wrt the push factor. Her thesis is available here, and is very readable:

mcgill.scholaris.ca/items/5bfebe9b-c703-453c-8fb0-a7c360638aae

Do you think Barbie Kardashian was born , not made ?

Your analysis is spot on. You can see the reaction when this is pointed out which unsurprisingly ignores the second group and hurls the tiresome bigotry invective around.
The entire debate has been at cross purposes. When we raise concerns we are pointing out the harms to women and girls of enabling group 2. The other side only see group 1 and ignore group 2. Until they are honest and acknowledge group 2 exists there will be no meaningful dialog. We acknowledge group 1 but point out the difficulty/impossibility of framing any law that excludes group 2.
Oh and incidently, whether you agree or not most of what Mary Whitehouse was banging on about has come to pass. The days of instantly dismissing her as a crank without relistening to her opinions are over (much like no debate).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-60556060

There's that couple who used to be in children's TV, their three daughters all deny being female. What are the chances, eh? All of 'em born in the wrong bodies/ incorrectly assigned at birth.

I think the OPs is a good summing up with an acknowledgement that it is necessarily simplified.

incredibly ignorant - propaganda - Dear god seek help - malicious transphobia
With TPA, it's always turned up to 11, isn't it?

I had overlooked the
Dear sweet Jesus on a paddleboard juggling pineapples, what a completely ignorant load of nonsense
I think that's probably cranked up to 12, at least!

The trouble with using such extreme hyperbole is that the basic point (should there be one) gets lost. People switch off. When everything is catastrophic, nothing is catastrophic. Any argument is undermined. It diminishes what the poster wants to say.

This is a remarkable amount of pseudoscientific jargon just to avoid treating trans people like complex human beings. People are complicated and don’t just fit into neat little boxes that completely affirm your worldview. I understand it makes you feel good but it’s completely patronising.

You could apply this 'theory' for any ideology including gender critical feminism:

Group 1 = mainly motivated by push factors.

Women & Men with gender insecurities/complexes
Women with internalised misandry
Men with internalised misogyny
Women & Men with conformist tendencies
Women & Men with victimhood complexes

Group 2 = mainly motivated by pull factors

People who think they can gain a personal advantage by exploiting trans bashing to gain political power.

People who think they can gain a personal advantage by seeking attention when they have lost relevance.

People who think they can gain a personal advantage by bashing trans people as a business model.

People who think they can gain a personal advantage by elevating themselves a la Suffragettes/Crusaders AKA hero complex.

If you want to play denial two can play.

This is effectively how I discuss this issue with those who are asking me questions in person. It really does come down to motivation which is very different as you say.

And yes, it is very useful to leverage those children. It is a strategic move.

Group 3 - mainly motivated by reality

people who know it's impossible for mammals to change sex, it is determined at conception.

This is not relevant because no one who is saying that male people can never be female is demanding that they are treated as something that they are materially not for the purpose of accessing the opposite sex single sex provisions.

It is an irrelevant comparison and you are just back to using this to demonise people who disagree with you.

Sorry but what a crock of shite. Yes we know the various reasons that people claim a trans identity and pointing out the obvious dangers to women and girls of certain types isn't bigotry. The fact that TRAs resolutely refuse to discuss or acknowledge these types even exist is the big problem. How about the case of the transwoman masterbating in a hospital ward today? Care to have a discussion on how this person isn't a woman? How you can tell and how you'd exclude them from places where women and girls are vulnerable? You won't discuss it because you can't admit that being a transwoman is an entirely unfalsifiable belief and there is no way of legislating for this other than by self id and sod any negative consequences for women and girls.
I look forward to hearing your solution (which you will undoubtably ignore or answer a different question).