Article on "arguing with a TERF"

[MyAmpleSheep]

I love to keep up with the other side, so here's a lot of words just to say "it's complicated." meanwhile he ignores the obvious answer to his own question.

www.fasttrackfemme.com/p/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-with

Stryker wanted one-way mirrors at eye level specifically at the ‘sitting down on the toilet level’, so the occupant could see who else was around.

One of the oldest 'solutions' I've ever heard.

You do have to wonder why someone needs a thing like that just to wrench moles.

(With apologies to Flanders and Swann.)

If gay men wanted to use the womens toilets, they should?

Yes, I find they work with the vast majority.

So long as they have scraped and scratched and scrabbled and scrooged, and then scrooged again and scrabbled and scratched and scraped. Not a proper mole otherwise.

If we agree on the effects of estrogen, then I don't think data is needed. This is a situation where I can simply use common sense (unless you disagree, then sure, I'd have to provide data)

A) we don't. Estrogen in no way reverses the effects of male puberty. Men on estrogen are still not women, nor physically equivalent.

B) it's irrelevant. Stevie wants the conversation to be based on risk, but women aren't constrained by What Stevie Wants. We don't give a crap about his preferred framing of Why Stevie Gets Things Other Men Don't. He was male because his father's sperm carried a Y chromosome and nothing short of time travel can change that.

C) his vapid arguments aren't worthy of respect in a democratic society. They are just self justifying bilge he is sprouting to try and shore up his claim that he qualifies as a woman. The Supreme Court has been VERY clear. As has hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.

Mean, median, or mode can all work here

I assert that the average transwoman would be the same height as the average man. Because they are men.

And transwomen could dress like the majority of women and go into the mens unnoticed because they would just be men in t-shirts and jeans.

But they don't want women's spaces because they are scared to use the mens if that was the case they would be happy with unisex facilities. They want the women in the women's to be pawns in their game.

@Keeptoiletssafe
Wouldn't a mixed bathroom be the safest option by that criteria
It's just an observation about a specific criteria, I'm aware different criterias exist. I was testing it's extreme logical conclusion.

I skipped the question because it's useless in the context of my solution.
I already conceded I can't play more lawyer for all the self-ID - certificate stuff, I brought up the arguments I heard around and no idea what else people who advocate for it can bring up

I said size, which is made up of more than height

Stevie doesn't want tiny wee men with trans identities to be allowed into women's spaces Stevie wants Stevie to be let into women's spaces.

A quick look at Stevie's blog will show any interested parties that Stevie wasn't a tiny little weak smaller than average man prior to deciding he wanted to be woman.

And you have zero evidence to suggest transwomen are smaller than other men. It's just an idea you have.

It's an infrastucture project. If one space is not safe for a group, then the path of least resistance dictates they move to the safer space.
To not get that space to overflow now, you build a new third space for all that water to go to.

If one space is not safe for a group, then the path of least resistance dictates they move to the safer space.

Safer for who?

If the outside world isn't safe for the foxes, do we just pop them in the henhouse?

It's an infrastucture project.

Is that what we are now? Infrastructure? Talk about dehumanising.

No the answer is not we put women in danger to protect some men. We don't put small men, old men, ill men, weak men, boys or gay men into women's spaces. If transwomen don't trust their fellow men it is not up to women to shield them.

Women are people too, we deserve safety, dignity and privacy.

That does not work with public toilets. If toilets aren’t safe for a group then the path of least resistance is to close the toilets.

There’s no criteria where a mixed sex ‘bathroom’ is safer because design is absolutely linked by legislation and building regulations to the toilet being private if it mixed sex.

A) This is about comparing them to men.
For the rest, ok, I got asked a specific question so I'm answering a specific thing
I do think a compromise is possible
Haven't seen any of the trans people in my life advocate for access to women's bathroom, third spaces are a pretty common solution. Most people who talk about it seem to be teenagers.
I remember offering the certificate idea years ago to a group of friends, and they just said they don't care about bathrooms, they just don't want to be hated for who they are.

Oh and for all Stevie's weasel words this is what he really thinks-

I want to say something, and I want to say it very clearly, so that you understand. There is nothing you can say that will stop me living as a woman. There is nothing you can do that will stop me living as a woman. And there is nothing that can come out of your mouth that I give the remotest shit about. Now, is that 100% clear?

Can't imagine why I don't want to listen to this poor delicate flower trying to argue his way into a place he doesn't belong and isn't welcome.

I know, as ever, this has ended up as an endless debate about toilets but it's not just about toilets, it's about all women's spaces, sports, awards and groups. If you let some men in they aren't women's things any more.

Women's things belong to women, men can't have them.

A, C) This is about comparing them to men
B) I guess it's fine for me to be a punching bag for any TRA you've seen online, but it isn't relevant to my comment

@MedicalConsensus

interesting fact alert:

49.999999999999% of men are smaller than the average man.

49.9999999999999% of men are weaker than the average man.

They may not be safe in the men's should they all get a free pass to the ladies?

That is interesting with the male trans teenagers you know as I have found it is usually females that want mixed sex or unisex toilets, rather than going into the males. Maybe it’s because they are more vocal but older males don’t want to use mixed sex or unisex toilets. They want to use the female toilets. For example, Robin Moira White calls the ‘third space’ type of toilets you are going on about ‘ghettos’ and wants to use the women’s toilets.

Females who don’t want to use female toilets, campaign for ‘gender neutral’ toilets then find they don’t like them as they feel afraid when men hang around them and don’t like the mess or smell. Sometimes they will go back to using female toilets. I feel sorry that they feel they have to use the mixed sex/unisex designs when they are obviously feeling unsafe or uncomfortable.

If you listen to trans people talk about toilets there’s often a very sexed response.

Have you anything that you can link to where it shows these male teenagers preferences?