Hampstead Ponds update today

[WallaceinAnderland]

I'm not sure that this is in line with the law.

They need to label all 3 ponds as mixed sex.

https://news.cityoflondon.gov.uk/hampstead-heaths-bathing-ponds-to-remain-trans-inclusive-spaces-as-city-corporation-agrees-future-access-policy/

They can not label any of them as mens or ladies they must call them all mixed sex

Bravo Hampstead Ponds! This is a great common sense decision, and a victory for tolerance and decency.

I think lots of people around here have grossly misunderstood the law around this issue.

No. CoL have said the men's pond is for men and transmen, so the men cannot kick off without a transman suing.

It is an almost certainly illegal decision if the women's pond remains labelled women, they will have to label it 'mixed sex' - so TiMs probably won't want to use it since it will cease to be validating.
As it is, it is exclusive because some women cannot use a pond which is supposed to be for women.

Please explain the point of the single sex ponds if anyone of either sex can use them.

On what grounds might somebody be excluded?

If they have no legitimate purpose to allow sex discrimination, then they can't have a separate women's and men's pond at all.

Agreed, it's lovely to see a service provider stand up for its users, especially in the face of the threat of vexatious lawfare.

So, no more "women's pond" for the activists, then. Well, this is the flip side of warning us that everything would just be made mixed-sex. FAFO.

If men want to "identify" for the day and swim in the former women's pond, there will be nothing to stop them. Ditto for the women, into the former men's. Why not?

There will be no validation anywhere!

Bit confused by this. ‘Stand up for its users’. Are you talking about transwomen being allowed to use the ladies ponds? What about the women who didn’t want to swim with men?

However, the result is that all three ponds have become mixed sex.

I'm talking about the users who have repeatedly and overwhelmingly voted to remain trans inclusive.

I heard an expression which is fitting here 'The organisation has become a fortress of its own dogma', CoL is so determined to have it's way it's bulldozed flat all evidence and testimony that contradicts it's stand.
Faced with clear proof of unfairness, it's digging its heels in, it's will, will not be thwarted, its internal politics and organisational ego, matter more than the rights and safety of women.
At this point it’s wilful defiance, a refusal to do what is lawful and ethical. Hopefully the court case will continue, and all ponds will have to be labelled Open. It can't be labelled women if it lets men in.

More women's stuff TRAshed

Good work fellas

Privacy is one of the legitimate exceptions. A swimming and sunbathing area that is designated Women Only, and actually is used by biological females only, is a space in which women could enjoy greater privacy than a mixed sex area.

If I understand rightly, there has always been a Mixed Pond, so there was always a 3rd space for transpeople, so it transpeople had access to the same facilities as men and women had.

I don't see how transpeople were being discriminated against, if there was a mixed 3rd space it always was trans inclusive.

So all mixed ponds. So why are they still referring to a men’s pond and a ladies’ pond?

Why not just describe them all as mixed?

i just hate the dishonest way that they make out that public opinion is behind them, when it surely isn't. 38000, indeed!

Yes, indeed, 38,000.

Of course their annual general meeting also voted overwhelmingly to remain trans inclusive, and that can only be attended by pond users.

I honestly have no idea why so many people who've never set toe in the pond and never intend to think it's their business to meddle and override what the pond users want.

Oh nonsense.

What's tolerant about excluding women so men can have all three ponds? Talking bollocks does not make anything real ffs. There is no common sense you could find with a microscope.

Meddle?!
when you change the meaning of words nothing makes sense
what does trans inclusive mean?
a man puts on a dress and he’s magically a woman
NO

Yes, that's what I thought. I don't see how you can have 'women and transwomen' which excludes men, where transwomen are biological males for the purpose of the equality act.

I think the 'two characteristics' was not meant to include transwomen as women as that would be discriminatory to men. It's the Women's Institute all over again.

It would have to be a very specific association with clearly defined aims.

I honestly have no idea why so many people who've never set toe in the pond and never intend to think it's their business to meddle and override what the pond users want.

That's rich, seeing as this is exactly what seems to have happened when there are complaints that thousands of people who don't even live in London brigaded the consultation!

Nobody has suggested that trans people should have less access to the ponds than anyone else.

Same access. Either their biological sex pond, or the mixed pond.

Surely, if they're doing the 2 PCs rule, then the men's pond would be males & everyone with the PC of gender reassignment?

I think they've just misunderstood the law.

they have indeed. The word ladies pond is another word for female or woman, and has its ordinary meaning of biological female at birth as per the EQA and as such must be for biological women only.

The two characteristics thing is about associations.

In any event Sex Matters won their appeal so its back to a judicial review for this nonsense.