Be Kind 2.0 and the "Persuasive TRA"

[BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth]

This is a spinoff from another thread so as not to derail the original.

I thought it would be helpful to have a separate thread to discuss, and document, a phenomenon I have been seeing more regularly recently: the Persuasive TRA.

It occurred to me, after a few posters noted that the recent U-turns by a couple of politicians, and the wheedling TRA responses to the EHRC guidance, were akin to an abuser changing tactics and also asking us to "help" them in the new single-sex regime, that the whole thing is starting to pan out exactly as an abusive relationship often does. When is the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship? Normally, when she is leaving.

Well, women are leaving the abusive relationship with non-reality that men forced upon us some 15 years ago, and I would argue that now might be our most dangerous/difficult moment.

This is what I posted on the other thread:

I'm starting to see a bit more of what I am calling (in my own head) "Persuasive TRA." Now that they have lost everything that they bullied women for, some activists seem to be changing tack. Women must now fix the situation that TRAs have found themselves in. It seems to pivot on a sort of Be Kind 2.0.

I think women who have been in the game long enough will see through it, but we should be watchful. Stonewall is pivoting, activists are pivoting, and they will be preying on women's socialized kindness: watch for the destination and be on your guard.

I have read several posters on different threads appealing to everyone (women) to help calm trans-identified people's (men's) fears about what this new reality will look like, what it will mean for them (the men) now that they can't just do whatever they want anymore. What about the men's toilets? Are they safe? Where will they go? (Who will fix this problem?)

Well, apparently it is a problem that women can fix, if they just take a moment to think about it. Trans-identified men will be unsafe in the men's, so women need to join the fight to give these men something of their own.

Notice the pivot? The pleading? If you just... If you weren't so.... It can be different if you just... Sound familiar? To any woman who is in, or has escaped from, an abusive relationship, this will be all too familiar.

This is Be Kind 2.0. It's very similar to the original, except that instead of being forced to enjoy our abuse, we are being asked to fix it. And the "Persuasive TRAs" seem to be mobilizing, from what I have seen.

It won't start in the middle (with the women); it will start at the top (infiltrating government, think tanks, charities, etc.) and the bottom (schools). But they will use women to get this moving. Why not? It worked so well last time. And I believe that organizations like Stonewall will be leading the charge: the campaign can be something like Safe Spaces for Trans+ : All of Us Together.

If anyone else has seen this in action, it might be useful to keep a record of it here.

I imagine this thread will eventually be taken over by activists, but, until then, I would be interested in your thoughts.

had a strong performance in all eight categories: leadership, empowering individuals, employee network groups, the employee lifecycle, policies and benefits, monitoring, supply chains and external engagement.

the employee lifecycle
What??

supply chains
Oh, are we back to all companies having to be pure or they go under? That was extremely sinister last time and definitely worth watching out for. "We can't do business with you unless you get ranked higher" is coercion.

Oh, are we back to all companies having to be pure or they go under?

It could be, but it does appear that some who have bought into this new rendition of "do as I say, not as I do" are actually talking about supply chains and logistics. As I said, very random.

Or it could all be sleight of hand for coercion, yes.

This is really weird, paranoid - and, incidentally, deeply offensive to DV survivors like me. Especially today, as Natalie McNally's killer is sentenced.

Treating minorities like they're conspiracies against you is genuinely worrying behaviour.

Trans people are normal human beings, with full lives, jobs and relationships. Some are trans men, some trans women, others are non-binary.

Dehumanising them like this, inventing really odd scenarios and weaponising the language of domestic violence, is not normal behaviour.

Thank you for so clearly showcasing the emotionally manipulative tactics used by transactivists to criticise / silence women talking about the erosion of women's rights and child safeguarding.

Perfect 👏👏👏

Fine, congratulate yourself. Still one of the most breathtakingly ignorant, offensive and quite frankly paranoid things I've ever read. And I've still got Christmas cards from my in-laws.

Well given some of the posts on her advocating that women and girls should undress in front of men, should not be allowed an opinion, should reframe their trauma from sexual abuse and rape and aren't worthy of the rights to privacy, dignity nor safeguarded with the consent of consent because men say so that's one hell of a claim.

Treating minorities like they're conspiracies against you

Men are not a minority. Activists, thankfully, probably are.

Trans people are normal human beings

Yes, they are. So are women. A lot of transactivists do not act like normal human beings, and I am talking about activists.

Dehumanising them like this, inventing really odd scenarios and weaponising the language of domestic violence, is not normal behaviour.

You see what you want to see. Some of us who have been in abusive relationships can see the same patterns in how activists treat those they don't like. I think it's fair and necessary to point that out.

This is an information thread, for women to be aware of where activists' tactics may go next. If you don't like the thread, don't read it.

More offensive than telling women (female people) that the world needs political, legal, linguistic and social language and recognition to differentiate an ill-defined group of people who feel a bit wommany inside from ones who feel a bit manny inside or ones who feel a bit one sometimes and a bit the other at other times, but doesn't need any way to differentiate between the actual two human sexes despite the massive differences sex makes in some critical parts of our life? I think not.

I think fucking not.

Ironic on a thread where the discussion is about new, persuasive forms of transactivism.

Telling us we’re paranoid and weird isn’t a winning argument, so presumably name calling and attacking women discussing the abusive tactics being used against them gives you pleasure?

100% this. If only our “leaders” listened to us more.

Erm, what?

I don't undress in front of other people, male or female, and never let my kids do so, because cubicles exist. Who advocated that?!

Christ this place is odd.

Don't Stonewall et al need to be careful about offering "inducements to discriminate" against GC staff? Or did they decide that having pretty much got away with it in Allison Bailey's case (all the blame fell on her employer and Stonewall weren't held responsible) they're in the clear from now on?

😂😂

Maybe you avoid threads / articles like this but it might be worth having a read to see what parents (women and men) are complaining about. Just a couple of links so that you can update your knowledge and insight into what's happening to girls and young women in real life:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5507367-mixed-sex-changing-rooms-in-a-brighton-secondary-school-part-3-were-really-cooking-now?page=1

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-12350741/Parents-raised-concerns-transgender-pool-official-using-womens-changing-room-time-young-girls.html

Allison Bailey's case against Stonewall will be heard by the Supreme Court in due course so Stonewall are by no means in the clear.

supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2026-0017

As I've said, I'm the mum of someone who's trans. He was subjected to so much transphobic violence at school (most of it sexual) that he became suicidal, harmed himself and had to take many weeks off, severely affecting his exams. He was exhausted from hypervigilance and I consider it a small miracle he's alive.

He's been threatened, stalked, filmed and assaulted. All because trans people are considered fair game - cis boys would tell him that sexually touching him "doesn't count".

Dehumanisation and sexualisation of minorities causes real-world harm. It is ruining the lives of trans children and young trans people - many of whom are afraid to leave the house, have failed exams they were supposed to pass with flying colours, and face homelessness because of family rejection.

None of that helps cis women - but it is the sole tangible result of anti-trans activism.

There is no organised invasion of women's spaces. Trans women have been quietly using the Ladies toilet forever. But now, most young trans people cannot use any toilet when they go out. Their lives have been made even more intolerably difficult, and a bigger target drawn on their backs.

We are living in a terrible age for all women. Our services have been destroyed, there is no rape justice and we have no safe spaces. We aren't even safe at home, with drug-assisted partner rape likely affecting thousands of women on top of the more visible evil of DV.

Going after trans people is, I get it, much more fun than confronting the evil done by cis men. Not least because those men are eager to join in.

If something feels like a game - where you have agency, weapons and lawfare to help you - then it's not real activism against abuse.

Trans people aren't organising against women - but violent cis men are. And they love that they get to call themselves feminists and join in with the scapegoating.

You're fighting ghosts. Excluding a minority from public places does not solve rape, and it isn't child safeguarding. It's just bigotry.

And it's doing real harm. My son's scars are on his arms, not his chest. At least the exterior ones will heal.

He managed to survive school and is rebuilding his life. But he shouldn't have had to go through that. He shouldn't have had to listen to girls tell him he was scum for being trans, or have boys corner him demanding anal sex.

I am asking you: please read the words of trans children. Open season has been declared on them. They are sexualised, beaten and harassed every day in school - for a change of name and haircut. The vast, vast majority of them will never have any gender-affirming care - and most don't have a single adult at home who approves of them, or will protect them.

Being addicted to hate feels powerful, I get that. It's an antidote to the fear cis men force us to live with, all our lives. But anti-trans activism is solving nothing.

I found your words terrifying, because of how dehumanising they were. It is hard to credit how paranoid and aggressive your mindset appeared to be.

Conspiratorial thinking, and eagerness to collectively blame, were the reason for yesterday's riots - none of it was about the poor man who died, it just added to the pain of his parents.

Your post reminded me of them.

That's your call.

However, I really enjoy Japanese style bathing houses and unclothed saunas. Communal nakedness, but sex segregated.

Would you support changing the law to require that such places admit men (I am including transwomen in that group obviously) into unclothed women's areas, or would you support me in wanting the right to continue to have such places segregated by sex?

Would you, who does not even care to use such places and so loses nothnig by it, nevertheless advocate to take them away from the people who do?

I find your post terrrifying. So much fear directed at women for daring to state that we exist outside trans people's disordered beliefs about themselves and others.

I assume giving your beliefs that your "son" is a person who outside Gender Absolutist beliefs is a girl or woman. "AFAB" in the langusge of genderism.

I am so sorry that your female child was bullied and sexually assaulted. Those boys were indeed acting out the worst of toxic masculinity and I hate the scoiety that told them that is what boys do, and that abusing girls (and indeed gender non-conforming boys) is part of the role of a "real man".

Policing gender sterotypes is all part of patriachiy's misogynist devaluing and rejection of the female body and as a result of anything socially coded female.

But I find it hard not to also have genuine hate for the stupid, stupid ideology that put her in that vulnerable position instead of loving and protecting her as the girl she is.

Have you stopped to consider that, just as you accuse women of "hating" trans people because we can't do anything about male violence towards us (you actually said "cismen" but that is not quite the whole picture), your fury at women who simply want the female sex to have continued recognition in law, society and culture outside whatever it is that a man feels that makes him think he is a "woman" is likewise because it is easier for you than confronting the misogynist messages that too many in our society are hearing, believing and acting on?

Feminsts and gender non conforming people should be on the same side here. But we cannot support you as long as you and your allies make so much of your identity dependent on the world accepting misogynst and sexist ideas about what type of mind makes a person a man or a woman, and dismiss any recognition that women (female people) may exist in our own right outside that sexist reframing.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed also clearly has no idea about Sandie Peggie or the Darlington nurses. Or how many gyms have communal changing rooms with maybe a couple of cubicles.

Really? Truly?
Can you really not put your own troubles to one side and see the bigger picture?
Do you really believe that women and girls should no longer have single sex spaces at all? that toilets, changing rooms, domestic violence shelters, rape crisis centres, prisons, sport, hospital wards, intimate care should become mixed sex?
Do you really believe that allowing any man to self identify into these spaces would have no adverse impact on women and girls?
Do you care at all for the wellbeing and safeguarding of girls?

I apologise for all the questions but it shocks and saddens me to hear any woman speak with so little regard for women and girls.

This is not academic. Women and girls have been harmed by this ideology.
You sound angry, grieving and bitter.
This is in no way a game to me.

Your post reminded me of them.

If my posts have reminded you of anything other than that I want women to be alert to new transactivist tactics to try to remove rights from women and girls, then you either haven't read my posts, or you do not understand my posts.

I am an aunt to a trans-identified young woman who has been through the ringer and likely will never have good mental health ever again, and there is no activist slogan you can throw at me that I haven't already heard. Your blackmail tactics will not work on me.

I will not be enabling you to derail this thread so that's all the response you're going to get from me.

If you think transwomen haven't been organising against women, you must have been living under a rock.

Lord yes, I just remembered pre WFH when I was a bit fitter, not only were my two gyms communal changing but we also had very nice showers with communal changing at work. I used it a lot back then when I used to run in. So even in a non-uniform type office job it can be quite normal to be undressed with colleagues from time to time. It was such a normal thing that I forgot about it!

Communal single sex, obviously.

As I've said, I'm the mum of someone who's trans.

And? The Supreme Court judgment is good for "trans" people. Having very clear rules that keep men (with or without trans identity) out of women's spaces, and that keep women out of men's spaces, and that provide unisex spaces where people need them or where single sex spaces are not needed at all - all this makes life safer for trans people. So don't undermine the Equality Act or the Supreme Court judgment. They're doing the right thing.

Trans people aren't organising against women

How would you know that? Because your son isn't organising against women?

cis boys would tell him that sexually touching him "doesn't count".

How do you know they were all "cis"? And how do you know weren't after him because of homophobia? Do you suppose these boys know or care about the difference?

I am asking you: please read the words of trans children.

"Trans children" are children. They have no more insight into why they're unhappy or being bullied than any other child. If other people are feeding them nonsense that being the other sex would make them any happier or that they can change sex then children are going to believe it and repeat it. Because they are children. Doesn't make it true.

Open season has been declared on them.

No it hasn't. And you're not doing your son any favours by escalating the drama.