Any recommended genderist writers?

[bonfireoftheverities]

"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." - John Stuart Mill

This is something I've tried to keep in mind over the last half dozen or so years since I heard TWAW, thought "What?" and fairly quickly found FWR. So I've made sure to read as much as I can take from those who truly believe that men can be women, or if they don't actually believe it (because how can you, deep down?), desperately want it to be true. I say as much as I can take because after a while you've seen and heard it all before, and it never starts being convincing.

The latest pile of nonsense I dove into is this: The End of Trans Rights in the UK Is the Start of Democratic Collapse. Dear god, that almost made my brain melt. The links alone show you that he never strays outside an idiotic bubble (Helen Webberley being the first I clicked into).

Is there anyone you can recommend who makes their case without lying and relying on liars?

So if sex and gender are different, why are transpeople so determined to modify their bodies to represent the opposite sex? I thought we were past all the gender stereotypes bollocks that define people. If the only way transpeople can “present as the opposite sex” is by adhering to sexist, outdated gender stereotypes, then once we get rid of gender stereotypes, how will they then “present as the opposite sex”? Why can a TIM not just be a man who wears dresses and make up? Why not make all clothing and interests for everyone regardless of sex. Smash the gender norms all all live free

What are male secondary sex traits?

Voice changes, facial and body hair, musculoskeletal development, body fat distribution, skin and gland differences.

I don't believe in gender, how can I when no one can define it.

I'm sure you will find it in the dictionary if you bother.

The dictionary says gender is stereotypes associated with sex. But we've been told repeatedly in the past that it has nothing to do with stereotypes. But an inner essence or feeling.

I thought we'd started getting rid of the stupid stereotypes anyway. With let toys be toys and so on.

I have facial and body hair. Am I a man?

The thing is though, apart from a very few people, no one conforms to the gender stereotypes fully, so does that mean everyone is non binary and therefore trans? If we removed all gender stereotypes, how would trans people know they were trans?

We did start to remove all the gender stereotypes bollocks, but the regressive gender ideologists brought them back. Without them, their whole movement collapses.

Indeed. And what I find interesting is that they can't seem to see it. I have an acquaintance of many years who, as lovely as she is in many many ways, is also a raging TRA. Apparently she can't call herself a woman anymore because the "terfs" say she isn't feminine enough and because she's had a hysterectomy.
Which is exactly the opposite of what the terfs/GC women say.

Yeah, all they have is the outdated gender bollocks. My ex used to get really upset as however feminine he dresses, whatever makeup he put on, however long his hair was, people still saw him as a man, but I could go out in baggy clothes, short hair and no makeup and everyone knew I was a woman. Drove him batshit. He got so angry if I didn’t do the whole hyperfeminine thing with full makeup and dresses etc.

The Elizabeth/Ewan Forbes story is fascinating including re the baronetcy of Craigievar (which incidentally includes the most gorgeous castle, it’s now National Trust). There’s a programme on BBC Sounds called “Turning Point” which looks interesting - not yet listened but on the list!

No it doesn't. Did you even bother to look:

Gender
2
b
: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

Mem Web.

Stereotypes are social expectations. Typical gendered behaviours are those usually associated with a sex. Big difference.

Are you suggesting there are no typical behaviours more associated with one sex than the other?

Yes. I mean, if you think about it, the only men who uphold male gender stereotypes are those of the “manosphere” such as Andrew Tate and the only women upholding female gender stereotypes are the conservative Christian tradwives. Anyone else perform a mix of both. Are you saying we should all adhere to the gender stereotypes of those two groups? Really?

TBH I couldn't give a flying fuck what an American dictionary says. As I'm not in America.

The Cambridge dictionary says
a group of people in a society who share particular qualities or ways of behaving which that society associates with being male, female, or another identity
And
the condition of being a member of a group of people in a society who share particular qualities or ways of behaving which that society associates with being male, female, or another identity

Which to me sounds a lot like stereotypes.
And yes, of course there are stereotypical behaviours traditionally linked to men/women. But I think those stereotypes are a load of bullshit. Liking DIY doesnt make me male in any way, shape or form. I'm a woman who likes DIY (which is apparently a male thing)

Are you suggesting that social expectations do not massively shape our behaviours?

And Frank Bruno and Henry Cooper did a lot of knitting. Are they then women? @EmilyinEverton can you name any gendered behaviours that most people of one sex do that hardly anyone of the other sex does? Why do gendered stereotypes determine whether someone is a man or a woman? Men in the 17th century used to wear makeup and high heels. Did this make them women?

Hang on... if knitting makes one a woman, then Tom Daley can gestate his own children in future. Instead of being a vile baby buyer!
Problem solved.

I totally agree. Our craft group are doing a boycott of his (frankly derivative) patterns. What I want to know @EmilyinEverton, how he knew which sex of person would give him a baby? Why didn’t he ask a TIM? rather transphobic of him I feel.

His patterns are shit! I know so many women who create far better stuff but are female aren't famous so no one cares. I'm always tempted on threads like this to post characteristics of the people in my house and see if anyone can guess our sex/ gender. But a you could AS search me then you'd know.

That's ironically stereotypical….& particularly convenient for those who feel 'challenged' by expressions of typical gender associations. It's interesting that those who seem most bothered by typical behaviours are those that don't express them ….some would say thats rooted in an insecurity complex.

The fact of the matter is typical behaviours are typical because most people are inclined towards them that's proven in consumerist, employment, life & special interest choices.

For people who like to pontificate about the delusions of others they sure do like to delude themselves about the obvious differences in gendered behaviour performed by most around the globe.

Maybe check out Cambridge for stereotype to understand the difference:

stereotype
noun [ C ]
disapproving
uk
/ˈster.i.ə.taɪp/ us
/ˈster.i.ə.taɪp/
Add to word list
C1
a set idea that people have about what someone or something is like, especially an idea that is wrong:

Yes & no. That's like saying people can't express an autonomous thought .

Whilst some of our choices are shaped by environmental influences to imagine our genetic & hormonal dispositions don't is completely false. Humans possess organic inclinations that are perfectly capable of overcoming societal influences.

particular qualities or ways of behaving which that society associates with being male, female, or another identity

Another word for qualities associated with x would be stereotypes. So I don't need to look that up.

Huh? Are you just typing words at random now? Are you saying I’m insecure because I’m not a Christian Tradwife? 😂😂😂😂😂😂. That’s er…. A hot take. So if women don’t act like tradwives they’re insecure and the same with men and “the manosphere”? I know lots of women who don’t uphold your “gender stereotypes”. Are they not really women? Is this why transpeople cling so desperately to these stereotypes? If I do a job typically “allocated to men”, wear no make up, have short hair and wear a men’s tee shirt, everyone would still see me immediately as a woman. If a male did the same thing, he’d be seen as the male he is. Remove gender stereotypes and there is no way for a trans person to be trans is there?

Sex (across species) refers to the reproductive system.

We wouldn't bother to classify sex if we were just talking about people with different traits.

Gendered behaviours are typical behaviours more associated with one sex than the other. By virtue of the meaning of the word 'typical they don't have to be exclusive to one sex just more common and some are differences in consumer, employment, special interest & life choices.

Always comes back to bog standard sexism.

No. Stereotypes are societal expectations not societal associations. Big difference.