Friend shocks me by suddenly saying he's female. How to handle this?

[MiffedatMP]

A month ago a male co-researcher and friend I have known for 10 years, "came out as trans" by posting a couple of pics of himself on FB wearing eyeliner and studs in his newly pierced ears, and by changing his pronouns to he/she and saying he is a "trans female".

Just four weeks previously we spent the whole afternoon together and he did not breathe a word about this. He is 45, tall, broad-shouldered, slim-hipped and has angular, very masculine facial features. He looked and acted exactly the same as I have always known him: completely male in looks, speech, mannerisms, dress, etc. Therefore his announcement has come as a complete shock and, to be honest, at first I thought he was playing a prank.

Later this year we are supposed to begin a joint project which entails working closely together for months and I just don't know how to handle the situation. I've been wondering how long I can avoid ever referring to him by any pronoun - easy when it's just the two of us but the moment I have to refer to him as "he" or "her" to another person I am going to have to make a choice. I'm already worrying about this eventuality because it is bound to happen. Also on the project itself... there may be some wording which refers to him by a pronoun and again, I have to make a choice. I don't see how I can get out of this awkward situation. If I refer to him as "she" then I am sort of announcing that I am going along with this nonsense, and if I call him "he" then obviously this is going to cause massive fall out between us. He might storm out and the project abandoned, possibly after many weeks of work.

Even if I can manage to avoid the pronoun thing, how can I stay silent or dodge the subject if he looks me right in the eye and tells me he's now female? He hasn't yet changed his name but if he does I just don't think I can bring myself to call him by a female name.

I thought the easiest thing would be to just cancel the project, but that would make it look like I cancelled "just because he's trans", making me look like the baddie, losing his friendship forever and risking him smearing my good name around our small town, among our many mutual acquaintances, with goodness knows what social/business/friendship repercussions. Ditto if I replace him with someone else - I'd have to give him a reason, which, again, will get me into some kind of trouble, name-called, cancelled, hated because there are quite a few punitive activists where I live.

I understand now why people go along with it - because the alternative is life-changing, possibly life-ruining.

I just really, really wish he hadn't done this because it's made things so awkward.

What would you do?

I've never been involved in any online discourse about this before now. I'm just going on my own memory from the news when I was younger.

That's why I said in theory. In theory violence in prisons (both women's and men's) should not exist the way it does. But since it does, we have to take that into account.

My argument is that everyone is safe, but if you posit otherwise , then obviously they are safer in the women's. Because there are no men there.

The answer however is not to insist that women budge up and shut up. The men folk can sort themselves out.

You're right, although I have been called that before on this thread haha 🤷‍♀️

But the women become LESS safe if you move a self selecting group of men to the female estate.

Women’s rights to have single sex spaces are not dependent on the meds and wants if men who are vulnerable to harm from other men. Where do we draw the line? There are lots of men who are at grave risk of harm from other men. Old men, sick men, male sex offenders….the list goes on and on.

I've already explained above that my views on trans people in prison are nuanced, including that people should not being able to transition while in the justice system, which it seems this person did. Prison is one of the few places where transitioning could actually make someone's life easier instead of harder.
But that's a failure of the prison system anyway. Sadly, we can't pretend anyone in prison is safe from sexual violence, whether it's a same sex environment or not.

What is all this history of frequent trans murders?

Why shouldn’t other vulnerable men use women’s spaces then? Gay men? Old men?

I'm trying to envisage how this would play out, realistically, based on your examples. Someone comes in who looks slightly masculine and you scream and fight them? Did they attack you first? I can't lie, I'm puzzled by this one.

Could you link to some evidence of the frequent murders of trans identified males in the uk at any time please? Or in fact, anywhere. Because I’m somewhat sceptical to say the least.

There are men there though, there’s at least that “trans woman” man and any other one who fancies being in there, aren’t there?

Sure.

They wouldn't be any safer from the theoretical attack from random men (which I don't actually think is that common but other people seem to think predatory men are fixated on bathrooms as their preferred place of attack). They would be safer from misogynistic, homophobic men who might kick off if they saw "a bloke in a dress" in their loo.

I'm remembering some high profile statistics from the US (I'm American) from a few years ago. But it's common sense, knowing how homophobic hate crime works, that the more visible you are in that way, the more at risk you are.

I guessed you were American. Are you aware that trans identified males in the US are less likely to be murdered than other males statistically?

And as a pp said, in the UK murder victims are just as likely or more likely to have been killed by a trans identified male than be one. We’re talking very small numbers of both, of course, which is why that proportion fluctuates year on year.

That's interesting to me. I thought this was for general sex and gender discussions; that's certainly how it started out. The way everyone seems only concerned with trans stuff now is part of what piqued my interest. But if it's only for gc people now, then I will respectfully bow out :) Carry on yall.

Thanks, will have a browse. Although my first post did address the op's question specifically, I don't want to derail anyone's thread! I enjoy a good debate myself and learning about other people's views, but if you'd rather talk amongst yourselves I do respect that & will peace out.

Genuine good wishes & thanks to everyone who took the time to debate with me respectfully and didn't call me a man, a pick me or a Serena Joy lol

Feminism is about and for women and girls. It’s the rights movement for us, half the planet, who are female, and traditionally oppressed by male people.

Men don’t qualify, it’s not about them any more than Save The Whales is required to campaign to protect leopards. As pp said, you’ll find lots of interesting discussions on this board where you can pontificate about the nature of gender identity to your heart’s content. Probably best not to hijack a support thread about a IRL dilemma.

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OP i have read all the posts so far.

I have a close trans identified family member and despite being gender critical I have no issue with refering to a trans man as he or generally to a trans woman as she.

Having said this, because for you it would be such a big issue to refer to this person as she, and avoiding pronouns completely is actually quite hard to do, I think you would be best to shelve the project. Debating it won't end well for you, or them, IMHO.

Good luck.

And if you do proceed you must have a contract to protect your financial side/intellectual property, and fir him to protect his.

Probably best not to hijack a support thread about a IRL dilemma.

Exactly - sadly I do feel these interventions whether done (supposely) innocently or with intent is making far to many threads basically repititions of the basics as it were.

ie the volume of these inteventions drags every thread back to a basic understanding and blocks the option to move forward.

Although no doubt some trans allies think this is a good ploy.

But also means what should be a support thread can get derailed, just be someone saying over and over again but I think like this way and so ignores what is said, or assumes it is just about I feel like this.

Maybe we should be a bit more sensitive or aware and at an early stage when something like this happens say this is a support thread, if you have an aspect of trans politics you want to discuss start your own thread.

In a way that was almost the worst part. Being totally oblivious to OP's situation.

I'm a woman and a feminist, and I'd like to think my voice matters too. Funnily enough, op's irl dilemma was worrying about being treated by her coworker if she disagreed with them, the way some people on this thread have been happy to treat me for disagreeing. Safe to say it's not a topic I'll be joining in irl for that reason, so now we're in the same boat!

Let's all have some empathy for each other, people.
Unwatching now, I get the message: this is your space.