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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So it seems likely the EHRC guidance will be issued tomorrow Thursday 21st May …

526 replies

RhannionKPSS · 20/05/2026 16:55

That is if The Human Paperweight that is Philipson can make her mind up. What should we expect?

OP posts:
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Violetparis · 21/05/2026 20:03

Being discussed on Sky News now.

igelkott2026 · 21/05/2026 20:05

murasaki · 21/05/2026 17:47

It looks like a warning shot across the bows that if they carry on as is, they'd be sued.

They'll just send the results by email so nobody knows where they came in their "gender" other than the general position number.

They don't go onto Pof10 anymore - or at least I think you can find them but they aren't attributed to a particular athlete anymore - the last one appearing on my record is 7th Feb,

Kirschcherries · 21/05/2026 20:22

WallaceinAnderland · 21/05/2026 18:58

Will this affect Hampstead Ponds in their decision to continue to allow TW to use female facilities?

I think it will because the women’s pond either is for biological women only or mixed sex it can’t be women & transwomen. Obviously the same applies to the men’s pond so they either make all 3 mixed sex or are entry on biological sex.

Eventually Sex Matters or a similar group /woman will have standing and a judgement will be forthcoming. My understanding is London Corporation hadn’t issued their policy so the case couldn’t proceed. Now it’s issued along with the EHRC guidance it’s only going to be a matter of time. 🤞

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 21/05/2026 20:22

Chersfrozenface · 21/05/2026 20:01

Fun fact: there are glass people in Cornelia Funke's Inkheart universe.

Fantasy novels, obviously. Which I rather enjoyed.

Never read those, might look out for them now!

SwirlyGates · 21/05/2026 20:25

igelkott2026 · 21/05/2026 20:05

They'll just send the results by email so nobody knows where they came in their "gender" other than the general position number.

They don't go onto Pof10 anymore - or at least I think you can find them but they aren't attributed to a particular athlete anymore - the last one appearing on my record is 7th Feb,

It's a while since I've done parkrun, so I don't know what's in the results emails currently. But, it's easy enough to find your position overall, or within your sex, or within your sex/age group by searching the reults on the website, e.g. search "SW30-34" and count how far down you are.

ItsCoolForCats · 21/05/2026 20:29

Violetparis · 21/05/2026 20:03

Being discussed on Sky News now.

That Jess Thompson from the GLP 🙄🙄🙄

Was she deliberately mispronouncing Maya's name?

Didyousaynutella · 21/05/2026 20:35

Really don’t like the idea that unisex spaces will become more popular now. Women didn’t fight for their spaces for them to be taken away altogether just on principal for a few Transwomen who are after all a minority.

ArabellaScott · 21/05/2026 20:48

FernandoSor · 21/05/2026 19:17

Presumably because of the exceptions in the The Eqaulity Act 2010 (Work on Ships and Hovercraft) Regulations 2011, which I'm sure we are all very familiar with.

Non-flippant answer: there are lots of legal exceptions for working on ships and hovercraft, for example the NMW and pay discrimination on grounds of nationality does not apply, due to international treaty obligations. Remember when P&O ferries fired 800 British staff and replaced them with Philippinos on half the minimum wage? That's what they were relying on.

Ah I see. Thanks. I thought it was about ferries.😂

Specifically maybe UK/Irish ones as NI seems to have some exclusions.

ArabellaScott · 21/05/2026 20:50

FernandoSor · 21/05/2026 19:32

Yes there is - well 'ships and hovercraft' - this is because they have specific exemptions in the Equality Act 2010 where the EA is in conflict with international treaties regarding the treatment of seamen. Seamen have very, very few rights compared to other civilian employees.

snorts

Sorry.

ArabellaScott · 21/05/2026 20:50

I really am sorry that was juvenile.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 21/05/2026 20:56

Didyousaynutella · 21/05/2026 20:35

Really don’t like the idea that unisex spaces will become more popular now. Women didn’t fight for their spaces for them to be taken away altogether just on principal for a few Transwomen who are after all a minority.

The guidance is clear that these can't replace single sex spaces, things need to evolve to more options based on rational space/number of facilities/users. Which seems like the sane answer.

We've always been told by lots of women that they're fiiiiiine with mixed sex provision - while at the same time told by men with trans identities that if women have the option of single sex they won't use mixed sex and it will therefore be 'outing' for those who do. I guess at this point we see. If the wanking in cubicles and antisocial behaviour of some of these men continues, then yes, obviously, a lot more women are going to want to get the fuck away from them into a single sex space. It'll probably take a few years to settle enough to see.

Edited to add: those men not into the anti social/sexual fetish behaviour who would prefer not to use their own sex based facility are very likely not going to feel safe or want to be around people performing like this either. Who would? But I guess then it might be the behaviour that gets properly confronted as opposed to it all being hidden under the 'its transphobic' carpet.

Slothtoes · 21/05/2026 21:03

Might this report confirm that data collection surveys by public bodies or charities carrying out their aims, which only ask about ‘gender’ (and where monitoring sex data is relevant but it isn’t being collected) will need to revert to collecting data on sex?
(obviously being free to also ask eg ‘do you identify as trans?’ where relevant?)

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/05/2026 21:14

Chersfrozenface · 21/05/2026 20:01

Fun fact: there are glass people in Cornelia Funke's Inkheart universe.

Fantasy novels, obviously. Which I rather enjoyed.

Fun fact - Charles vi of France believed he was made of glass (probably not so much fun fir him...)

DustyWindowsills · 21/05/2026 21:32

ArabellaScott · 21/05/2026 20:50

snorts

Sorry.

😦

Sensitive content
So it seems likely the EHRC guidance will be issued tomorrow Thursday 21st May …
PachacutisBadAuntie · 21/05/2026 21:43

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/05/2026 21:14

Fun fact - Charles vi of France believed he was made of glass (probably not so much fun fir him...)

Caroline Crampton's excellent book is titled for and includes people who thought they were made of glass

https://www.carolinecrampton.com/abodymadeofglass/

A Body Made of Glass

Part cultural history, part literary criticism, and part memoir, Caroline Crampton's A Body Made of Glass is a definitive biography of hypochondria. Now out in paperback. * Serialised as BBC Radio 4's Book of the Week * Featured on NPR's Fresh Air i...

https://www.carolinecrampton.com/abodymadeofglass/

ProfPerformativeBewildermentOBE · 21/05/2026 21:48

Who do we think might be on Newsnight later to discuss this? BBC will have to cover it, surely?

Trying to work out if it’s worth staying up to watch in case of some fan girl viewing, or assuming it will be utterly infuriating, and saving my blood pressure by just going to bed then catching up tomorrow…

Babyboomtastic · 21/05/2026 22:00

I know there are some negatives around universal cubicles in car of medical emergencies etc, but I think there are positives of having a regular size one next to the disabled toilets. That would mean

  • dad's no longer having to take little girls into the gents
  • parents accompanying children for longer of they need a bit of extra reassurance
  • some women would prefer them when on their periods to sort a mooncup etc.
  • those with disabilities relating to urgency, or needing more privacy, or a quieter environment, who don't need the extra room of a disabled toilet would have another option, freeing up the disabled toilets a bit more
  • it would be useful for trans as well.

Doing it for trans alone would be disproportionate, but with the others who would use it, I think it's viable. It absolutely cannot be instead of single sex toilets though!

Keeptoiletssafe · 21/05/2026 22:28

Babyboomtastic · 21/05/2026 22:00

I know there are some negatives around universal cubicles in car of medical emergencies etc, but I think there are positives of having a regular size one next to the disabled toilets. That would mean

  • dad's no longer having to take little girls into the gents
  • parents accompanying children for longer of they need a bit of extra reassurance
  • some women would prefer them when on their periods to sort a mooncup etc.
  • those with disabilities relating to urgency, or needing more privacy, or a quieter environment, who don't need the extra room of a disabled toilet would have another option, freeing up the disabled toilets a bit more
  • it would be useful for trans as well.

Doing it for trans alone would be disproportionate, but with the others who would use it, I think it's viable. It absolutely cannot be instead of single sex toilets though!

  • dad's no longer having to take little girls into the gents

I dont normally make this so blatant because of obviously reasons but tonight I have got so fed up I will be a bit more factual about my research.

Unfortunately in real life that can actually be men taking boys and girls into a resistant-to-sound, private toilet. It is better that the man takes the girl into the gents so other men are alerted if there’s a problem. Most men are good men, and rape attempts in shopping centres and fast food chain restaurants’ men’s toilets (with door gaps) have been stopped when other men have realised what’s going on. I have strong evidence that serious crime in toilets happens in private designs - the door gap is a massive factor in the prevention of offences.

This toilet is one more place with a perfect design for sex and drugs.

Keeptoiletssafe · 21/05/2026 22:41

Apologies I am not having a go at you @Babyboomtastic I am just so upset that the EHRC did not take notice of all the real-life incidents I gave them and worked out that the safety risk was too high compared to the advantages. I wish I was naive and didn’t know all I know about what goes on in toilets after collating incidents for the last few years - I gave them my research thinking it would make a difference.

Babyboomtastic · 21/05/2026 22:53

Keeptoiletssafe · 21/05/2026 22:41

Apologies I am not having a go at you @Babyboomtastic I am just so upset that the EHRC did not take notice of all the real-life incidents I gave them and worked out that the safety risk was too high compared to the advantages. I wish I was naive and didn’t know all I know about what goes on in toilets after collating incidents for the last few years - I gave them my research thinking it would make a difference.

I get it, and I agree there are downsides, but no system is perfect, and there are arguable advantages to a separate universal toilet. When you decrease one risk you often increase a different risk and vice versa.

There are mitigations that could be put in place, the single cubicles opening into a very public place which makes it far harder for kids (or anyone) to be snatched, prominent signage of CCTV covering the entrance way, alarm cords within the cubicles as in disabled toilets etc.

Realistically though, the cubicles I suggest would be often adjacent to the disabled toilets, and the same risk exists there, at present. If someone wanted to drag a child into a self-contained room they could already do so with the disabled toilet. I'm not sure the risk increases substantially just because there's an extra room next door.

Places where the disabled toilet is unoccupied the vast majority of time (and so someone being in there for a very prolonged time for whatever reason, likely to go more unnoticed probably wouldn't have this second cubicle. It would be for places that are sufficiently busy to warrant the extra space, and that means more throughput of people which reduces the risk a little.

I'm certainly not closing my eyes to the risk but I think a balanced approach needs to be taken as to the pros and cons. I think we probably take a different viewpoint on where that balance leads us.

Keeptoiletssafe · 21/05/2026 23:14

Babyboomtastic · 21/05/2026 22:53

I get it, and I agree there are downsides, but no system is perfect, and there are arguable advantages to a separate universal toilet. When you decrease one risk you often increase a different risk and vice versa.

There are mitigations that could be put in place, the single cubicles opening into a very public place which makes it far harder for kids (or anyone) to be snatched, prominent signage of CCTV covering the entrance way, alarm cords within the cubicles as in disabled toilets etc.

Realistically though, the cubicles I suggest would be often adjacent to the disabled toilets, and the same risk exists there, at present. If someone wanted to drag a child into a self-contained room they could already do so with the disabled toilet. I'm not sure the risk increases substantially just because there's an extra room next door.

Places where the disabled toilet is unoccupied the vast majority of time (and so someone being in there for a very prolonged time for whatever reason, likely to go more unnoticed probably wouldn't have this second cubicle. It would be for places that are sufficiently busy to warrant the extra space, and that means more throughput of people which reduces the risk a little.

I'm certainly not closing my eyes to the risk but I think a balanced approach needs to be taken as to the pros and cons. I think we probably take a different viewpoint on where that balance leads us.

Thankyou for not taking offence. Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. Where are all these new spaces opposite accessible toilets magicked up from?

I have incidents of rapes happening in train carriage toilets, in disabled toilets at the busiest stations in the country, in disabled toilets in schools and hospital wards.

Mitigations don’t work. Everyone of those you mention doesnt work in real life - I have multiple examples to prove it. CCTV is retrospective - it’s useful to look at afterwards if the woman or child tells the venue she has been attacked. No one, as far as I am aware, has ever pulled an alarm cord. Why would you put yourself in extra danger?

Who are these toilets for? Men who don’t want to use the men’s, want to use the women’s toilets. Women who don’t want to use the women’s, want mixed sex BUT after the dirt, smells and misuse that happens in there there’s a trend to go back to the women’s. They are not needed.

If any extra toilets are needed, it is for non ambulant people to have access to single sex toilets too. It would be nice for them not to have to put up with the stuff that always gone on in disabled toilets. That’s the balance.

We need as few completely private non-domestic toilets as possible. Particularly mixed sex toilets.

DustyWindowsills · 21/05/2026 23:43

ProfPerformativeBewildermentOBE · 21/05/2026 21:48

Who do we think might be on Newsnight later to discuss this? BBC will have to cover it, surely?

Trying to work out if it’s worth staying up to watch in case of some fan girl viewing, or assuming it will be utterly infuriating, and saving my blood pressure by just going to bed then catching up tomorrow…

Was there anything on Newsnight? I gave up halfway through.

Babyboomtastic · 21/05/2026 23:50

Keeptoiletssafe · 21/05/2026 23:14

Thankyou for not taking offence. Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. Where are all these new spaces opposite accessible toilets magicked up from?

I have incidents of rapes happening in train carriage toilets, in disabled toilets at the busiest stations in the country, in disabled toilets in schools and hospital wards.

Mitigations don’t work. Everyone of those you mention doesnt work in real life - I have multiple examples to prove it. CCTV is retrospective - it’s useful to look at afterwards if the woman or child tells the venue she has been attacked. No one, as far as I am aware, has ever pulled an alarm cord. Why would you put yourself in extra danger?

Who are these toilets for? Men who don’t want to use the men’s, want to use the women’s toilets. Women who don’t want to use the women’s, want mixed sex BUT after the dirt, smells and misuse that happens in there there’s a trend to go back to the women’s. They are not needed.

If any extra toilets are needed, it is for non ambulant people to have access to single sex toilets too. It would be nice for them not to have to put up with the stuff that always gone on in disabled toilets. That’s the balance.

We need as few completely private non-domestic toilets as possible. Particularly mixed sex toilets.

How would you manage single sex disabled toilets when many people have a carer if the opposite sex?

They couldn't be in the regular single sex toilets, and if separately, would have exactly the same risks as now, and even more room would need to be created.

I use the disabled toilets sometimes with my child (justifiably, she has a disability) and I've not personally noticed them being in a worse state than the ladies btw.

Keeptoiletssafe · 22/05/2026 01:40

Babyboomtastic · 21/05/2026 23:50

How would you manage single sex disabled toilets when many people have a carer if the opposite sex?

They couldn't be in the regular single sex toilets, and if separately, would have exactly the same risks as now, and even more room would need to be created.

I use the disabled toilets sometimes with my child (justifiably, she has a disability) and I've not personally noticed them being in a worse state than the ladies btw.

The accessible toilet (used to be called disabled) has always been mixed sex and private. The reason it had a radar key was because of the misuse (sex, drugs, homelessness). This has always been a problem. See this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22602836

I have used accessible toilets as a carer to both males and females in wheelchairs. One female was annoyed I went in with her as she wanted dignity and thought she could transfer herself but I needed to make sure she was safe if she couldn’t. If the toilet was in the female washroom I could have waited outside and chatted through the door gap. Many disabled people are independent but have problems with the state of the toilets for example collapsing on the floor and no one hearing them: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqjvnkzgr1no
This article discusses some of the problems I had too with dirty facilities. Euan’s Guide listed there discusses more problems - it’s worth a look even just for the scheme for putting cards on pull cords, advising people to not tie them up.

Already more lone people use the accessible toilet for legitimate reasons than go in with a carer. Many carers are same sex. That leaves a small proportion who need it for the reason of a person with an opposite sex carer. However, additionally there are people that need the extra privacy for medical conditions including bowel conditions and paruresis. The mixed sex accessible is needed and needs to be kept under as close surveillance as possible because it’s a vulnerable space.

Back in 2008, when there was a Government report about the provision of public toilets, with no hint of anyone wanting a toilet not for their sex, the experts discussed the problems of disabled (as they were called then) toilets - space enough for two people plus privacy = sex. This was particularly poignant as sexual activity in a public toilet was put into the Sexual Offences Act (2003) as a way of trying to stop sex in toilets. They discussed how this had failed. It also discussed that sex always happens in toilets of all kinds and those that win ‘toilet of the year’ can be the same ones used for hookups via the internet. This still happens. The cleaner newer disabled ones were used at the BBC by many for sex, accordingly to Rod Liddle, on a story about Russell Brand https://spectator.com/article/the-bbc-always-knew-that-russell-brand-was-a-lout/

The first incidences of teachers using hidden cameras on pupils was in disabled toilets, something that still happens today. Here’s an example: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/704068/Warped-primary-school-head-teacher-jailed-spy-pen-pupils-toilet/amp
Unfortunately it was the place listed where many historic assaults took place too (Everyone’s invited often mentions it). However then schools started having private mixed sex cubicles with shared washbasins in a mixed sex space. More sex, drugs and dirt happened there. I have learned a lot from these set ups. Unfortunately there have been some nasty incidents which I think had a chance of being prevented if there were door gaps in the designs so children could have been found sooner. Here is an example of what happens in school mixed sex private toilet designs: www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/drug-dealing-drinking-dirt-problems-28517175<a class="break-all" href="https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/drug-dealing-drinking-dirt-problems-28517175" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/drug-dealing-drinking-dirt-problems-28517175
As a guide on rapes in schools the estimates I have got from the only 2 sources available (BBC and Panorama) are between 2-5 a week inside British Schools. Where are these happening to get to that stage? It requires privacy. The examples listed were toilets and cupboards.

You have described somehow carving out another toilet into the space next to where the accessible toilet is now. I am describing carving out a slightly bigger space in each of the single sex toilet washrooms. Neither may be realistic except in new builds.

I don’t know if your child is ambulant but there is another design in the separate sex washroom which may be of use. It is the ambulant design and is at the end of a row. It has handrails, is often bigger than the others and has an outwards opening door. These designs too take the strain off the accessible toilet.

What I would like to see is the only private toilet being the mixed sex accessible design.

Finally you are more likely to pick up a bug in unisex toilets. It isn’t discussed here, but other experiments have shown that the particle plume from a flush travels 1.5m which will cover the sink and dryer in a unisex toilet. So that’s particles from the previous occupants. Paper towels are better. If you don’t change the filter of the dryer, bugs will multiply inside the warm dryer. Heres the list of pathogens found in hospital toilets with a plea to stop the spread of unisex toilets:
https://salus.global/article-show/pathogen-findings-raise-concerns-about-move-to-unisex-hospital-facilities

Toilet door

Disabled toilets: What is a Radar key?

It is a large, conspicuous, silver-coloured key that opens more than 9,000 accessible toilets in the UK like magic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-22602836

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