So it seems likely the EHRC guidance will be issued tomorrow Thursday 21st May …

[RhannionKPSS]

That is if The Human Paperweight that is Philipson can make her mind up. What should we expect?

I'm going to stop going on and on about disabled facilities now - as you can gather it really really annoys me the way they are up for grabs as a cheap workaround for anybody else who needs specific consideration..
Sorry for obsessing🙁
The main point is that sex=biological sex has been re-re-re-confirmed, and I'm happy with that, at least

'For the purposes of transportation of people and provision of services on board ships and hovercraft in prescribed circumstances (section 30), it does not matter whether the ship or hovercraft is within or outside the UK '

Phew. So glad they cleared that up. MON THE HOVERCRAFTS.

Wait -

3.32 The services provisions do not apply to ships and hovercraft

I'm so confused.

I don't know about the BBC but the Guardian will be all over it with analysis articles and a moany Owen Jones column. It's hardly as if they are going to ignore it is it.

Toilets and changing rooms must be used on basis of biological sex, guidance confirms - BBC News

From PTD on Reddit

13.130 If a service provider (or a person providing a service in the exercise of public functions) admits trans people to a service intended for the opposite sex, then it can no longer rely on the exceptions set out at paragraphs 13.99 to 13.111. This means that if a service is provided only to women and trans women or only to men and trans men, it is not a separate-sex or single-sex service under the Equality Act 2010.
13.131 A service like this is very likely to amount to unlawful sex discrimination against the people of the opposite sex who are not allowed to use it. A service which is provided to women and trans women could also be unlawful sex discrimination or lead to unlawful harassment against women who use the service. Similar considerations would apply to a service provided for men and trans men.
It is possible to offer a mixed-sex service alongside a single-sex service. A mixed-sex service must be open to all service users.
13.133 If a service provider (including a person providing a service in the exercise of public functions) decides only to provide a service on a mixed-sex basis, without any separate or single-sex option, this could be direct or indirect sex discrimination against women who use the service or lead to unlawful harassment against them. This is most likely in contexts like those referred to in paragraph 13.116.

I presume the GLP are going to either apologise for misleading us or take immediate legal action based on the above?

As it runs directly contrary to their claims about the meaning of the GLP case.
Also I'd bet that paras 13.139-13.140 are what they had to add in as they are examples but are not formatted in the same blue boxes as the other examples.

What a terrible day.

(Formerly PTD- previous account lost due to an attack)

Presumably because of the exceptions in the The Eqaulity Act 2010 (Work on Ships and Hovercraft) Regulations 2011, which I'm sure we are all very familiar with.

Non-flippant answer: there are lots of legal exceptions for working on ships and hovercraft, for example the NMW and pay discrimination on grounds of nationality does not apply, due to international treaty obligations. Remember when P&O ferries fired 800 British staff and replaced them with Philippinos on half the minimum wage? That's what they were relying on.

Also, the GLP

The guidance has been toned down from the previous draft – but it still treats trans people like they’re a third sex.

Er, no it doesn't. It literally states they are either a biological male or a biological female based on sex at birth. No mention of third sex whatsover.

The GLP will try to whip all the many unstable people into a frenzy so they can grift further money to “challenge”

I didn't know hovercrafts were still a thing. You live and learn.

Ooh, it's on the BBC news website at last. Top story too.

Don't apologise and you're not obsessing, you are 100% correct to raise all the points you have💐

Willoughby's reaction is that if transwomen have to use the male facilities they are at risk of being raped. But it's fine of course to give all men free access to female facilities.

Join the dots mate.

I've just skipped to the last page of this thread and plan on skimming, backwards, but am I reading this completely out of context? Is there really specific guidance for hovercrafts?

Aside from the risk to actual women, if men can use the women's, and Willoughby uses the women's, then what's to stop other men following Willoughby into the women's and committing rape in there?

Yes there is - well 'ships and hovercraft' - this is because they have specific exemptions in the Equality Act 2010 where the EA is in conflict with international treaties regarding the treatment of seamen. Seamen have very, very few rights compared to other civilian employees.

It is a great improvement in clarity and removes some excuses.

But also a strange read. The sheer amount of stuff about the ill defined category of "trans people". I do wonder how these will read as historical documents in a few centuries time. Like legal guidance had been carefully written to indicate how due deference should be paid to the needs glass people and avoiding discrimination against them.

Every day is a school day. You've explained it really well to me.

Oh, but I thought we were always being told on here that 'Men are going to be violent anyway, it doesn't matter what toilet anyone uses'? 🤔

Yes, when I first saw Arabella's post, I thought, that's it, the guidance has finally tipped her over the edge! She's babbling about hovercrafts. I had no idea!

99% of places will simply require one new single occupant facility, alongside the existing facilities, labelled 'mixed sex' or 'gender neutral' or maybe 'accessible' ( alongside the dedicated disabled facility)

Small venues and establishments with two single ocupancy facilities currently one male and one female could simply make both of them 'mixed sex' or 'accessible'.

First, I must disagree: I found the guidance impenetrable, but am getting there slowly with help from others...

Second: I am stealing "glass people" thank you very much!

Caroline Flint is on the Cathy Newman show on Sky News. She said Labour and the other parties have been on a journey since Maria Miller's recommendations on Self ID. The message seemed to be that lessons have been learnt, which I am taking as positive.

From what I've seen of the politicians commenting on this so far, they seem accepting of the code. I'm sure Nadia Whittome will be having a meltdown though.

Fun fact: there are glass people in Cornelia Funke's Inkheart universe.

Fantasy novels, obviously. Which I rather enjoyed.

Marie, this is important stuff, it was really good to read your take on it.