Cambridge Union debate - This House Believes modern LGBTQ+ activism fails its community

[ItsCoolForCats]

I'm starting this thread mainly so I can post this link because Maeve Halligan is a force to be reckoned with:

https://x.com/i/status/2055119527914938412

They lost the debate, which was to be expected given the state of universities on this issue, but Thea Sewell said they got a respectable number of votes. Hopefully they have planted some seeds in people's minds.

Other speakers were Buck Angel and Helen Webberley (for the other side).

Full debate is here https://www.youtube.com/live/wE0JY9d7f-w?si=4ZIVmcxyevo0DQvB

Surely "transbians" are just heterosexuals where one partner likes cross dressing, no? I'm not sure why we would need a special word for that?

It's not about who you or I personally find more attractive out of the two. The point is for the general population sex traits influence attraction.

FWIW, many straight women, especially when we are young, find feminine presenting men very attractive. Look at our pin-ups, boy bands, K pop and so on. Hulk Hogan they ain't. Literally the opposite of how Ez thinks it is.

Their 'ridiculousness' isn't the point of this discussion. Rather what characteristics influence attraction.

And what are the characteristics that do?

I used to have a thing for The Bay City Rollers who weren't exactly doyennes of masculinity but no, they did not have female bits. I think what you are referring to is prettiness & symmetrical facial features which younger women & men seek for reproductive 'fitness' reasons.

But you said male “hysteria” about “transwomen” is the result of their “fears..”
I don’t know a single man who is afraid of “trans women”….
I do know that many women are very unhappy about self Identifying “transwomen” going into women’s spaces.

Not afraid in the sense of physical domination obviously.

So, I think you are trying to tell me you think I'd rather have sex with a macho man with a fanny than a pretty lady with a willy?

Actually no.

Firstly, loads of women find androgenous men sexy. Secondly, if I went to bed with a man and found him to be a woman, I'd stop seeing him as a man. Might still sleep with her because I"m not 100% straight 😁 but I'd certainly at that point be attracted to her as a woman not a man with a fanny.

Honestly mate this feels like something you have logicked into being rather than actual truth.

indeed- Whereas real women are afraid of being assaulted by so called trans women in public toilets.

Well hats off to Maeve Halligan. Brilliant speech. She’s a superstar.

She truly is! Such an impressive young woman.

So it’s all about the bits? You’re aware that 95% of trans identified males still have penises? and obvs it’s not possible to create an actual vagina on a man

I'm not sure how same gender attraction is supposed to work. Say you identify as a woman; and you meet a person who is clearly female (biological sense) but she is wearing unisex clothes and doesn't declare her pronouns. What differentiates her from her twin who dresses similarly but in fact (although they don't mention it to you) identifies differently? Or you meet a man who presents in a quite feminine way but may or may not identify as a woman (he doesn't say). If you are attracted, on what basis are you attracted? What role does gender play?

No. The analogy was directed at Tate's fans who are predominantly straight men who have stereotypical preferences in women.

It's simply pointing to how superficial traits influence preferences.

No. But those 'reproductive bits' can now be artificially created.

'Reproductive fitness' is an evolutionary psychology term that's subject to the scientific method.

Clearly, attraction characteristics vary between individuals. But what does remain a constant is an attraction to typical sex traits for both CIS & trans people.

So in other words it's not about how the people you fancy actually gender-identify.

Edited to add: it's about your perception of their body.

Maybe it's because I'm in a lot of pain but I don't understand your point at all.

I think swimmers are attractive. Say I rate Katie Ledecky an 8 and Aleksandr Popov a 7. I rate Katie with a willie a 2 and Aleksandr with a fanny a 3. What does this mean other than I prefer congruency between primary and secondary sexual characteristics and bits are marginally more important to me than secondary sexual characteristics?

If I rated Aleksandr with a fanny a 10, what would that mean other than I'm probably a chaser? What if I rated Katie with a willie a 10 but Aleksander with a fanny a 5?

This is probably a derail. Sorry. This makes no sense to me and I'd like to follow the discussion.

No I get it. For some people typical sex traits aren't their 'deal breakers' but that would be a minority of people that ignore characteristics like a penis or vagina preference for another.

@EmilyinEverton I don’t fancy women. I also don’t fancy men who present as women.

one of those groups calls me phobic, and says I need to widen my perspective and reframe my trauma.

Do I, indeed, need to do that, if so why? And if not, why not?

How do you know that "Most people don't believe in 'ghosts' or believe in 'god'"?

Maeve Halligan is superb isn’t she?

It’s so heartening to see young women fighting for the cause so eloquently. Amazing speech.