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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cambridge Union debate - This House Believes modern LGBTQ+ activism fails its community

235 replies

ItsCoolForCats · 15/05/2026 07:15

I'm starting this thread mainly so I can post this link because Maeve Halligan is a force to be reckoned with:

https://x.com/i/status/2055119527914938412

They lost the debate, which was to be expected given the state of universities on this issue, but Thea Sewell said they got a respectable number of votes. Hopefully they have planted some seeds in people's minds.

Other speakers were Buck Angel and Helen Webberley (for the other side).

Full debate is here https://www.youtube.com/live/wE0JY9d7f-w?si=4ZIVmcxyevo0DQvB

Thea Sewell (@theasewell05) on X

lIf you do anything today, watch @MaeveHalligan at the Cambridge Union. I genuinely think this was the first time many people in that room were confronted with the hard reality of the trans debate, rather than the slogans that usually surround it. @Bu...

https://x.com/i/status/2055119527914938412

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/05/2026 13:23

FlirtsWithRhinos · 17/05/2026 13:21

That's where the return to Victorian times is located - in the transactivist's Victorian male reductive view of women. As objects to be owned, to be dominated, conquered and violated.

So true. Just as the Victorian explorer and ethnographer felt entirely able to observe, categorise and define the cultures he encountered with far more authority about their lived experiece than he could conceive of them having themselves, so male transactivists take the same colonising approach to women.

And just as some colonised individuals consciously or subconsciously came to take the coloniser's view of their culture over their own, so female transactivists accept this male narrative for themselves because they consciously or subconsciously feel safer with that group than against it.

Fantastic posts Flirts. Flowers

And it takes us back to the subject of the thread - these courageous young women with the confidence to speak out so articulately in a hostile environment. Plus the positive signs that some universities are recognising the harm that trans threats and bullying has done and are slowly beginning to return to some semblance of democracy and free speech.

EmilyinEverton · 17/05/2026 13:25

FlirtsWithRhinos · 17/05/2026 13:09

Hahahhahahhahaha hahhahahhaha haha ahhh - breathe - ahahahahahahahaha

No.

This is not about "inherent weakness". I would love to be in a world where we could just kick down the barriers with gay abandon.

But you know what?

We tried that. And it didn't work.

Not because there's any inherent baked in reason why it shouldn't but because we were unrealistic about the men and about how socially ingrained sexism is in both sexes.

So right now, women (in the non-debased, pre-genderist sense of people with female bodies) are still being sexually and domestically abused and doemstically exploited, and are still given less default credibility and therefore harder career paths resulting in fewer women in the highest levels of senior leadership, and our bodies are still being brutalised and abused for entertainment.

Do you really think that still happens because some pesky women seem to think we need separate lavatories, and if we just let TW use the loos like they ask it would all go away? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

We got the freedom to do more but we didn't change the way too many men treat us and we didn't change enough of the cuture for enough other men to challenge them, so we just gave them new ways and sometimes even easier ways to exploit us.

We wanted fairness and opportunity.

We got cocklodgers and CSA-dodgers because we were conned into thinking women having the ability to earn their own money meant it's not feminist to hold men accountable for their families.

We got pornhub, only fans and mega-brothels because we were conned into thinking that women not being shamed for haing sex meant men would respect women sexually.

And we got trans women in our sports, prisons, officerships and prizes because we were conned into thinking that saying women should not be limited by their sex meant women can never say that our sex matters.

Bringing about that barrier-free world we both want to see is not a simple matter of refusing to see things that we do not want to believe and thinking that means they will go away.

It is about accepting the hard truth that right now, women (in the non-debased, pre-genderist sense of people with female bodies) do get a shitty end of the stick for reaons that are sometimes baked in our bodies (we will always be the ones who carry children, most of us are physically weaker than most of the men we encounter and none of us are stronger than every man in the world) but mostly baked into our structures and our culture and how people with our bodies are supported or not.

And for that reason, even as we still strive for a world where men do treat us with respect, and don't abuse and sexualise us, and don't take up the air and the space and push us to the margins, we also need places, for now, where the men are not.

Physical spaces of course, but also cultural and linguistic spaces where we can come together as women without men inserting themselves in our conversation and reframing our expereinces to suit themselves, where we can form our own understanding of our lives, our challenges and our needs and to back each other up to fight for true equality.

That is true Feminist insight. To be brave enough to realise women will not be freed with a few slogans, a few mixed sex changing rooms and some You Go Girl corporate events, by pasting on a smile and petending that if we don't ackowledge the sexism we still face it will go away, but with hard work, with being clear eyed about the hidden inequities we face and being brave about talking about these and having the language we need to do so.

Beccause we tried "kicking" down the barriers and it turned out that we only we kicked down the barriers that protected us, because they were only ever very flimsy in the first place. We didn't make a dint in the reasons we needed protection in the first place.

We didn't change the invisible ones stop us having the same opportunities in and power over our lives as men. Those barriers are harder. And they won't come down with kicking, but with patient hard work to demolish them brick by brick.

Now, I'm still an optimist. I do still believe those barriers can come down. But as long as they exist not just because, as you believe is the only reason and I accept is partly the reason, women wrongly see ourselves as needing them, but also as an entirely rational response to the current behaviour of men, we can't just kick them down by ourselves. We need to bring men on the journey with us, or at least enough of them that social pressure between men keeps the rest in check.

Before the barriers come down we need to get to a place were the barriers don't make any sense. And we are sadly no where near that place today.

Edited

You realise the overwhelming majority of domestic violence is by one's intimate partner & sexual violence mostly occurs in the victims or perps home & as such is known to the victim? Exactly how will women's private spaces preventing trans women entering fix that?

See where Gender Critical ideology is going? Nowhere that's helping women's safety in a meaningful way. In actual fact it prevents it by dominating the media & political space effectively silencing the lion's share of where violence emanates from.

The Patriarchy couldn't have wished for more useful idiots.

FrippEnos · 17/05/2026 13:28

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/05/2026 13:14

Much as I love your thoughtful and insightful posts BL, I reckon everyone should back off lesbians.
Young lesbians have been under siege for nearly a decade now, being bullied and coerced into accepting men as sexual partners. It's that corrective rape fantasy that some men indulge in. Older lesbians weep as we see what's happened to young women and how they've become a seedy man's rape fantasy.
That's where the return to Victorian times is located - in the transactivist's Victorian male reductive view of women. As objects to be owned, to be dominated, conquered and violated.

I agree that lesbians should be left alone to just be themselves.
It won't happen unless the word lesbian can be fully aligned to them.
We have seen on this thread a poster that claims being a lesbian is about the feelings of men.
And I know of a woman that claims to be a lesbian but is going out with a transwoman (TWAW and all that bull).
We need to fight to stop the approprition of language by the trans lobby.

FrippEnos · 17/05/2026 13:34

EmilyinEverton · 17/05/2026 13:25

You realise the overwhelming majority of domestic violence is by one's intimate partner & sexual violence mostly occurs in the victims or perps home & as such is known to the victim? Exactly how will women's private spaces preventing trans women entering fix that?

See where Gender Critical ideology is going? Nowhere that's helping women's safety in a meaningful way. In actual fact it prevents it by dominating the media & political space effectively silencing the lion's share of where violence emanates from.

The Patriarchy couldn't have wished for more useful idiots.

You do realise that women have a right to dignity and privacy away from men?
That women have a right to fairness in sport?
That women have a right to be able to get away from their abusers and discuss matters in a single sex enviroment.
This isn't all about violence its about being recognised as a person that has rights that another group shouldn't be alowed to remove.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 17/05/2026 13:38

EmilyinEverton · 17/05/2026 13:25

You realise the overwhelming majority of domestic violence is by one's intimate partner & sexual violence mostly occurs in the victims or perps home & as such is known to the victim? Exactly how will women's private spaces preventing trans women entering fix that?

See where Gender Critical ideology is going? Nowhere that's helping women's safety in a meaningful way. In actual fact it prevents it by dominating the media & political space effectively silencing the lion's share of where violence emanates from.

The Patriarchy couldn't have wished for more useful idiots.

You misunderstand my post entirely.

I'm talking about the necessity of single sex spaces, women-only prizes and opportunities, and clear sex based language for changing the culture.

The value of single sex spaces is not just the men they exclude in the moment, - my God what a male-centric view to take! - but the support, understanding and political energy that comes from the conversations that women can have without men within them, and the opportunities that give women the confidence and resources that they can get away.

That is what changes the culture. That is what leads to the creation of single sex refuges so women is crisis can have places to go, and to protests, research and poltical movements that actually can have a difference to what happens to women in their home and to how seriously police take the issue.

The marital bed is not a single sex space, but the womens movement was still able to get martial rape criminalised evebtually. That happened because enough women talked to each other to get the confidence to stand together and say "This is happening to many many women and it is wrong" .

Please, try to be less superficial. Stop skimming posts looking for a gotcha and put some thinking efiort in to understanding them.

(Also, what is with TRAs and "See where this is going?" You've all started doing it recently and TBH it does create the impression you are all the same person with different names. I'll do you the courtsey of believing you are not just a previous poster with a retread, but FYI it does suggest you are all relying on the same very limited set of resourses for your thinking.)

FlirtsWithRhinos · 17/05/2026 13:40

That said, I agree with Ez's comment "The Patriarchy couldn't have wished for more useful idiots.", although we differ very much on who those idiots are.

I could not think of a better way to describe the Genderist movement, believing itself progressive while it literally undefines female people as a meaningful social group.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/05/2026 13:44

FlirtsWithRhinos · 17/05/2026 13:38

You misunderstand my post entirely.

I'm talking about the necessity of single sex spaces, women-only prizes and opportunities, and clear sex based language for changing the culture.

The value of single sex spaces is not just the men they exclude in the moment, - my God what a male-centric view to take! - but the support, understanding and political energy that comes from the conversations that women can have without men within them, and the opportunities that give women the confidence and resources that they can get away.

That is what changes the culture. That is what leads to the creation of single sex refuges so women is crisis can have places to go, and to protests, research and poltical movements that actually can have a difference to what happens to women in their home and to how seriously police take the issue.

The marital bed is not a single sex space, but the womens movement was still able to get martial rape criminalised evebtually. That happened because enough women talked to each other to get the confidence to stand together and say "This is happening to many many women and it is wrong" .

Please, try to be less superficial. Stop skimming posts looking for a gotcha and put some thinking efiort in to understanding them.

(Also, what is with TRAs and "See where this is going?" You've all started doing it recently and TBH it does create the impression you are all the same person with different names. I'll do you the courtsey of believing you are not just a previous poster with a retread, but FYI it does suggest you are all relying on the same very limited set of resourses for your thinking.)

I believe DARVO is an essential technique to try to centre men's rights in women's lives and thinking.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 17/05/2026 13:53

EmilyinEverton · 17/05/2026 13:25

You realise the overwhelming majority of domestic violence is by one's intimate partner & sexual violence mostly occurs in the victims or perps home & as such is known to the victim? Exactly how will women's private spaces preventing trans women entering fix that?

See where Gender Critical ideology is going? Nowhere that's helping women's safety in a meaningful way. In actual fact it prevents it by dominating the media & political space effectively silencing the lion's share of where violence emanates from.

The Patriarchy couldn't have wished for more useful idiots.

Exactly how will women's private spaces preventing trans women entering fix that?

How exactly does letting 'trans'IDing males into women's private spaces prevent it?
How exactly will women who are pandering to a males rights movement protect women and girls from domestic violence?

How exactly do women who are erasing the meaning of women think they're helping protect women from male violence?
How exactly are women who are peddling this genderwang crap going to solve the problems facing women/girls?

BonfireLady · 17/05/2026 14:00

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/05/2026 13:14

Much as I love your thoughtful and insightful posts BL, I reckon everyone should back off lesbians.
Young lesbians have been under siege for nearly a decade now, being bullied and coerced into accepting men as sexual partners. It's that corrective rape fantasy that some men indulge in. Older lesbians weep as we see what's happened to young women and how they've become a seedy man's rape fantasy.
That's where the return to Victorian times is located - in the transactivist's Victorian male reductive view of women. As objects to be owned, to be dominated, conquered and violated.

Yep, fair enough.

My posts come from a place of support, because I find it utterly mad that lesbians are coerced into accepting "girl dick". But you're right about backing off.

MarieDeGournay · 17/05/2026 14:16

EmilyinEverton · 17/05/2026 13:25

You realise the overwhelming majority of domestic violence is by one's intimate partner & sexual violence mostly occurs in the victims or perps home & as such is known to the victim? Exactly how will women's private spaces preventing trans women entering fix that?

See where Gender Critical ideology is going? Nowhere that's helping women's safety in a meaningful way. In actual fact it prevents it by dominating the media & political space effectively silencing the lion's share of where violence emanates from.

The Patriarchy couldn't have wished for more useful idiots.

I'm just catching up with this thread and wow, now gender critical women are 'useful idiots'! I guessed that EmilyinEverton would start to feel the weight of so many posts disagreeing with her, but I didn't think it would turn into calling GC women 'idiots' so quickly.
I hope it doesn't result in 'this is a hate-fuelled echo-chamber, and I'm off!' , which is often the case after the name-calling starts.

Nobody here is 'effectively silencing the lion's share of where violence emanates from'
.Of course most domestic violence is perpetrated by men on women. Of course most female murder victims, and rape victims, are raped by men close to them.
I'm willing to be that a lot of posters on here are only too familiar with the facts about male violence against women, whether sadly through personal experience of it, or through years and years of campaigning against it.

We know all about male violence against women, but how does that, in your opinion, invalidate protecting women-only spaces?

Sex-segregated spaces evolved not just to protect women from male violence, they also exist for reasons of privacy. For whatever reason - 'discuss in 2500 words or less' - women and men have displayed a long-established preference to be separate when performing certain functions, e.g. in toilets, or undressing, e.g. in changing rooms.

The is not just enshrined in law - which still requires sex-segregated facilities in the workplace - but was also very widely respected, without having to be policed 'The good men stay out so the bad men stand out'
It is only very recently that some men have demanded access to women-only facilities.

That very fact throws up questions of motive. What kind of man would refuse to 'stay out', and in so doing 'stand out'? Why would he do such a thing?

Unfortunately, in some cases, the motive is violence: transwomen, men identifying as women, have accessed women's toilets in order to attack women.

But clearly the motive is not always violence.
Even the transwomen who do not have violence against women as their motive are entering spaces they are not supposed to be in. They don't 'stay out', so they 'stand out' as transgressors who know very well that they have no right to use facilities designated for women - which as the Supreme Court confirmed, means women as defined by biological sex.

Protecting women's spaces from use by transwomen has its own validity as a matter of law, of respect, and of principle. There is an occasional crossover with male violence against women, but the two issues do not cancel each other out.

Heggettypeg · 17/05/2026 14:46

EmilyinEverton · 17/05/2026 13:25

You realise the overwhelming majority of domestic violence is by one's intimate partner & sexual violence mostly occurs in the victims or perps home & as such is known to the victim? Exactly how will women's private spaces preventing trans women entering fix that?

See where Gender Critical ideology is going? Nowhere that's helping women's safety in a meaningful way. In actual fact it prevents it by dominating the media & political space effectively silencing the lion's share of where violence emanates from.

The Patriarchy couldn't have wished for more useful idiots.

"The majority of accidents occur within the home, so we don't need seatbelts in cars."

"People get murdered, don't you know? So let's legalise fraud and theft. They don't actually kill anybody and ignoring them would save so much money and police time."

Taztoy · 17/05/2026 14:50

Taztoy · 17/05/2026 06:12

@EmilyinEverton I don’t fancy women. I also don’t fancy men who present as women.

one of those groups calls me phobic, and says I need to widen my perspective and reframe my trauma.

Do I, indeed, need to do that, if so why? And if not, why not?

@EmilyinEverton just asking again as i think you’ve missed it

Wearenotborg · 17/05/2026 14:52

EmilyinEverton · 17/05/2026 13:25

You realise the overwhelming majority of domestic violence is by one's intimate partner & sexual violence mostly occurs in the victims or perps home & as such is known to the victim? Exactly how will women's private spaces preventing trans women entering fix that?

See where Gender Critical ideology is going? Nowhere that's helping women's safety in a meaningful way. In actual fact it prevents it by dominating the media & political space effectively silencing the lion's share of where violence emanates from.

The Patriarchy couldn't have wished for more useful idiots.

So how will allowing males into female spaces make women safer? By women I mean adult human females. I mean, how are women to know who is a “genuine” male with a trans identity and who is a male pretending to be a TIM? You will be making all spaces mixed sex. How does this benefit women? What benefit do women get from allowing all spaces to become mixed sex?

FrippEnos · 17/05/2026 14:58

Wearenotborg · 17/05/2026 14:52

So how will allowing males into female spaces make women safer? By women I mean adult human females. I mean, how are women to know who is a “genuine” male with a trans identity and who is a male pretending to be a TIM? You will be making all spaces mixed sex. How does this benefit women? What benefit do women get from allowing all spaces to become mixed sex?

I think that its worth noting that TRAs have moved from all transwomen are safe to all trans women are safe its the "Cis" men pretending to be trans that are the problem, then ignoring their own rules on self ID.

Wearenotborg · 17/05/2026 15:02

FrippEnos · 17/05/2026 14:58

I think that its worth noting that TRAs have moved from all transwomen are safe to all trans women are safe its the "Cis" men pretending to be trans that are the problem, then ignoring their own rules on self ID.

That’s it exactly. How are we to tell the difference? No TRA has ever been able to name one benefit to women for allowing males into female spaces. They tell s not allowing them in harms women, but can’t explain why. Almost like they think women are stupid.

MarieDeGournay · 17/05/2026 15:16

FrippEnos · 17/05/2026 14:58

I think that its worth noting that TRAs have moved from all transwomen are safe to all trans women are safe its the "Cis" men pretending to be trans that are the problem, then ignoring their own rules on self ID.

It's been interesting observing how many versions of trans-ness there have been, from 'TWAW, 100% women, just like any other woman, no difference at all, how dare you be such a hateful transphobe as to suggest I'm not a woman just like you?' to 'I have a piece of paper that says I'm a woman, that's all that matters' to 'My testicles don't make me any less a woman' to 'Obviously I haven't actually changed my biological sex, I've changed my gender and that's what matters' to ...oh who knows what the current iteration is!

On reflection, these haven't replaced each other over time, I think they are all still in circulation - Dr Upton for instance claimed that he had in fact become a biological female, at the same time as other trans-IDing men were making different claims.

BonfireLady · 17/05/2026 15:20

Taztoy · 17/05/2026 14:50

@EmilyinEverton just asking again as i think you’ve missed it

Great question. Definitely worth a bump.

I'd like to add to it. But firstly, I'm so sorry to read (previously on MN, can't remember which thread) what you've been through 💐

@EmilyinEverton I also don’t fancy women. And I don’t fancy men who present as women. Does that make me transphobic?

Moving on from sexual attraction...

Other than some groping incidents, I count myself as lucky that I've not experienced anything traumatic that makes me really have to think hard about why single-sex spaces are important. TBF I didn't think about it for many years, even when I already knew that giving puberty blockers to distressed children was a bad idea.

As I've had no direct experience of males behaving badly in women's spaces, should I just budge up and accept the ones who tell me they are women into the ladies' changing rooms and loos? How do I know which are the nice ones, when the ones with a fetish pretend to be nice too, and claim that they are oppressed and marginalised?

Are you aware of autogynophilia? If not, I could definitely understand why you might not be concerned about biological males in women's spaces.

Taztoy · 17/05/2026 15:22

BonfireLady · 17/05/2026 15:20

Great question. Definitely worth a bump.

I'd like to add to it. But firstly, I'm so sorry to read (previously on MN, can't remember which thread) what you've been through 💐

@EmilyinEverton I also don’t fancy women. And I don’t fancy men who present as women. Does that make me transphobic?

Moving on from sexual attraction...

Other than some groping incidents, I count myself as lucky that I've not experienced anything traumatic that makes me really have to think hard about why single-sex spaces are important. TBF I didn't think about it for many years, even when I already knew that giving puberty blockers to distressed children was a bad idea.

As I've had no direct experience of males behaving badly in women's spaces, should I just budge up and accept the ones who tell me they are women into the ladies' changing rooms and loos? How do I know which are the nice ones, when the ones with a fetish pretend to be nice too, and claim that they are oppressed and marginalised?

Are you aware of autogynophilia? If not, I could definitely understand why you might not be concerned about biological males in women's spaces.

And can I add @BonfireLady you might be happy to budge up for men but I’m not and no one else gets to consent for me so what other laws do you intend to reduce the primacy of consent in?

FrippEnos · 17/05/2026 15:25

MarieDeGournay · 17/05/2026 15:16

It's been interesting observing how many versions of trans-ness there have been, from 'TWAW, 100% women, just like any other woman, no difference at all, how dare you be such a hateful transphobe as to suggest I'm not a woman just like you?' to 'I have a piece of paper that says I'm a woman, that's all that matters' to 'My testicles don't make me any less a woman' to 'Obviously I haven't actually changed my biological sex, I've changed my gender and that's what matters' to ...oh who knows what the current iteration is!

On reflection, these haven't replaced each other over time, I think they are all still in circulation - Dr Upton for instance claimed that he had in fact become a biological female, at the same time as other trans-IDing men were making different claims.

Part of the comedy in this is that there is no consensus in the descriptions that are being used by the trans lobby as definitions, and that they all change and conflict with each other,
It is why the trans umbrella got so big and then they started to remove various groups that didn't fit.

BonfireLady · 17/05/2026 15:29

Taztoy · 17/05/2026 15:22

And can I add @BonfireLady you might be happy to budge up for men but I’m not and no one else gets to consent for me so what other laws do you intend to reduce the primacy of consent in?

Good point. I too don't want anyone consenting on my behalf for males to break the law and enter women's spaces.

Yes, @EmilyinEverton by all means please do advocate for mix-sexed spaces where you and other women who describe themselves as cis are happy to share spaces with males who describe themselves as women.

You'd have to be careful to follow the Equality Act, so you'd need to allow any male in who self-describes as a woman. No dress code, no genital inspections, no rules on "passing" as a woman - it would be both degrading and unlawful to put in such standards.

Edited for clarity

FrippEnos · 17/05/2026 15:36

BonfireLady · 17/05/2026 15:29

Good point. I too don't want anyone consenting on my behalf for males to break the law and enter women's spaces.

Yes, @EmilyinEverton by all means please do advocate for mix-sexed spaces where you and other women who describe themselves as cis are happy to share spaces with males who describe themselves as women.

You'd have to be careful to follow the Equality Act, so you'd need to allow any male in who self-describes as a woman. No dress code, no genital inspections, no rules on "passing" as a woman - it would be both degrading and unlawful to put in such standards.

Edited for clarity

Edited

It does seem to have been forgotten by TRAs and their supporters that consent is not transferable.

Taztoy · 17/05/2026 15:37

I keep asking the same questions and I never get answers. It’s disappointing.

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/05/2026 15:50

Taztoy · 17/05/2026 15:37

I keep asking the same questions and I never get answers. It’s disappointing.

But the lack of an answer is fairly illuminating in its own way …

Taztoy · 17/05/2026 15:54

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/05/2026 15:50

But the lack of an answer is fairly illuminating in its own way …

See also

I completely accept that trans individuals exist and can dress however they like

but how do I know what a genuine trans person is? How can I identify them?

don’t get told that answer either.

BonfireLady · 17/05/2026 16:21

Taztoy · 17/05/2026 15:54

See also

I completely accept that trans individuals exist and can dress however they like

but how do I know what a genuine trans person is? How can I identify them?

don’t get told that answer either.

To be fair to the TRAs, answering it would be transphobic. Take Pete the Plumber, the fictitious character who came to life during the Sandie Peggie tribunal, for example.

If Pete said "she" was a woman, what self-respecting TRA would dare to tell Pete that "she" wasn't womanly enough to use the women's facilities?

According to trans rights activism, if Pete says she is a woman, she is. End of.

More on Pete:

forwomen.scot/12/02/2025/the-problem-with-pete/