Hamas sexual violence on 7th October attack. Content warning.

[ArabellaScott]

A new investigation has shared more information on details of Hamas' atrocities.

I do urge caution when reading, and don't if you are feeling fragile.

'An independent, Israeli investigation has published harrowing details of "systematic, widespread" sexual violence by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups during the attacks on 7 October 2023, and against hostages.
The 300-page report concludes that rapes, sexual assault and sexual torture were intended "to maximize pain and suffering".
While the UN and others have published reports on sexual violence during the attacks – in which about 1,200 people were killed and 251 taken hostage – this is the most comprehensive.
It draws on 430 filmed interviews with survivors and witnesses, more than 10,000 photographs and videos filmed by attackers, and official records and material from attack sites.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgz9k7pzggo

What I've read of October the 7th reminds me of exactly those other atrocities - Rwanda, Bosnia, DRC, Syria, etc.

Three years on and we're only just starting to fathom what happened.

And when I think that the international community has decided that Israel must be punished and torn apart, after it was attacked in this way?

After what was done by Hamas?

Unbelievable, really.

https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/more-brits-killed-on-october-7-than-in-any-foreign-terror-attack-since-9-11-says-new-parliamentary-report-ao2mlh0g

'The Hamas-led attacks of October 7 were among the deadliest foreign terror attacks for British citizens since 9/11 according to a landmark new parliamentary report by historian Lord Roberts.
The 318-page report was the result of a year’s worth of research including primary fieldwork in Israeli kibbutzim attacked on October 7.
It details the murder, torture and sexual violence which took place, while also shedding light on the planning process and various terrorist groups involved in the assault.'

18 Britons were killed.

Lord Roberts:

'“Hamas and its allies, both in the Middle East and equally shamefully in the West, have sought to deny the atrocities, despite the ironic fact that much of the evidence for the massacres derives come from film footage from cameras carried by the terrorists themselves – though of course there is also much more from many other sources, as this report delineates.”
Roberts used a wide-ranging variety of sources to carry out his research, including testimonies from survivors, first responders’ media reports, photo and video evidence, military releases, legal documents, medical reports, census information, and academic articles.
His report looks at every one of the 32 civilian communities, three cities, two music festivals and military facilities that were attacked by Hamas and other attackers from Gaza.'

It's believable only with reference to a hatred 1000's of years old thats so deeply embedded into a lot of people's way of seeing that it's become invisible to their own eyes.

Thats the only way I can understand why these threads always end this way.

This is how I feel. The boycotts of Israel by comfortable middle class westerners, whose desire is to so economically weaken Israel so it can't defend itself for the barbarity that wishes to destroy all its citizens.

None, none of these people would accept for them or their families the threat that Israel faces from the conglomeration of terrorists that surround it. Demanding Israel accept it is the ultimate in Western privilege.

I recently heard the quote from the Irish politician and author Conor Cruise O'Brien: 'antisemitism is a very light sleeper'. I think it’s very apt.

I think this expresses it well:

My progressive sisters: believing yourselves immune to antisemitism has made you blind to it. There is a long and familiar pattern to that blindness, and it never ends where people expect. If you think you are striking a blow for the underdog by ignoring Jewish pain, you are wrong: you are part of an anti-Jewish establishment that never really went away

https://feministsagainstantisemitism.substack.com/p/a-letter-to-my-anti-racist-sisters

He was a true friend of Jewish people and sorely missed. I've been waiting for comments from Irish MNetters in response to this report. Anyone?

I would add that I've always been shocked by how many people who consider themselves to be kind, to be fair minded, to be anti racist, to be upstanding members of society, suddenly change when either Israel or Jewish people are involved. The only other group to be so despised IME are Romanies. These really are prejudices that are still permitted in some sections of society. I've heard people I know come out with the old stereotypes quite casually and not even think it's abhorrent.

Same. What I find strange is that while I’ve heard people I know express their critical opinions on Netanyahu, Israel and Zionism, they somehow completely fail to mention Hamas and October 7th.

But they are also aware the Israeli government exploiting their own people for political ends.

You know, whenever I hear this, I think why is no one ever discussing how Hamas viciously exploit their own people by allowing them to be slaughtered by the tens of thousands for political ends?

Hamas leadership must have known what the response was going to be from their horrific 7th Oct attack. They knew full well there would be severe repercussions. It’s almost as if they deliberately set out to make the attack as vicious and horrific as possible killing babies and children and young adults with the rapes and sexual torture in order to entice a violent retaliation. Was it a calculated risk to bring about international condemnation of Israel’s anticipated response?

No one ever mentions how Hamas deliberately embed their fighters under hospitals, by schools, in amongst refugee camps. This is never reported on. And we’d hear every day and see the shocking videos of Palestinian apartments reduced to rubble but never hear that every single day Hamas continued to attack Israel with rockets, again, full well knowing the repercussions for their own people.

Surely Hamas is much much more to be condemned for using their own mothers, sisters, wives and children to be their human shields than the Israeli government is for exploiting their citizens??

I quite cynically believe that Hamas wanted this to happen. They built tunnels for the Hamas leaders to hide in, nothing for citizens of Gaza. I also wonder if they didn't plan this for years so that they could hide hostages in those same tunnels, knowing that Gaza would be levelled. They hoped that sympathy would be with them, not Israel.

Was it a calculated risk to bring about international condemnation of Israel’s anticipated response?

Yes.

Their own people were their necessary sacrifices to the greater cause.

Please note their greater cause isn't a decent future Palestinian state, it's the end of the Zionist entity, aka the death of Jewish people.

"Neca ecos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet"

ETA ^ this isn't what I think. It is the mindset that I believe that Hamas has. It is a death cult IMO.

Yes. And some of the worst for this are the unions.
October 8th - nothing from almost all of them. The ones that did make a statement were all "but, but, but...Palestine..."

I agree. People who call it ‘legitimate resistance', apart from completely disregarding the suffering of the Israelis - how do they think this attack was supposed to help innocent Gazans?

According to the APPC report that is exactly what they did and exactly what they were banking on. A plan years in the making. And yes, there is evidence.

Ladies, have any of you seen game of thrones? There is a scene where an army almost storms a castle and inside women are praying together, but there is a line, I paraphrase, but essentially a character says the best they can hope for is to be raped and not killed. Since the beginning of civilisation women have been a commodity to men. But with times changing men have gotten crueler and we would often rather the instant relief of death as opposed to the torture that could instead have to be endured. How are we at the height of futuristic technology, at the height of understanding the human brain and all the other shit we can do, actually worse to women now than ever before? How have we evolved so fucking badly. I keep thinking about those women, then obviously the train of thought continues and you think of other stories/things you have seen/read. And I just cannot fathom how fucked up it all is. I think about the world little girls are inheriting and it scares me and the feeling of helplessness is so overwhelming. But I truly believe it’s worse than ever before for women/girls. I’m sure I’m derailing here so I’m sorry, but I’m trying to make sense of everything. Maybe it’s always been this fucked up, maybe now we’re seeing it visually it just seems worse because it can’t be denied. Maybe the rise in porn had blurred the boundaries for men so much that without extreme sexual violence rape simply isn’t enough anymore and maybe that applies across the board, so even in places of conflict just as much as it applies to the lone predators. Either way, fucking ludicrous this is where we are.

One hundred percent this!

Eli Sharabi's book Hostage is well worth a read. His Hamas kidnappers were a mixture of brainwashed and delusional, as well as being thoroughly evil.

You are 100% right and please know we didn’t all close our eyes to it . I’m not Jew , I have no connection with Israel apart from some Jew friends and some Arab friends I should add .
I have been on Israel side from day one , it was obvious for me what happened , no matter how people try to deny what happened , I think it’s very obvious just done because people love to hate Jews , it’s sad , makes nil sense to me but is true . As a woman and as a feminist the whole pro Palestine brigade makes nil sense or logic and it’s being fuelled by other interests .
please know lots of us are on your side

Is Gael mise, I am Irish, and I responded earlier.

Trying to take a wide view - I agree with PPs that it's not unusual for fighters to commit acts of sexual torture and rape, sometimes condoned or even ordered by superiors, sometimes acting outside their orders.

What is unusual, I think, is to have so many people expressing support for armed groups who are known to have committed act of sexual torture and rape as part of their strategy and tactics.

I can't think of any other examples - nobody marches in support of the RSF in Sudan, who also use systematic violence against women in their armed struggle against the Army - who also use violence against women.

That said, nobody seems to care much about Sudan at all, sadly, it appears to lack whatever X factor Palestine has.

Men have always, always done this to women. I don't think its got worse, it has probably got a bit better, it's just surprising that it hasn't got much, much better.

Human sacrifice, Barbary and Transatlantic Slave Trades, women being owned as a resource, Sati in India- too many examples to mention.

Things have improved but no where near as much as they should have.

It wasn't previously live broadcast to the world.

Just to the commoners on the village square for entertainment...