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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Giggle v Tickle Friday 15th May 2pm AEST

644 replies

impossibletoday · 11/05/2026 06:40

Giggle v Tickle
Friday 15th May
2pm AEST
Live streamed

https://x.com/i/status/2053669311504642197

OP posts:
Thread gallery
30
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/05/2026 18:18

There is a significant body of research that shows that women as in biological females have a higher concussion risk than males due to factors such as thinner neurons and weaker neck muscles. Therefore, any contact sport with males which includes things like football, hockey as well as the more obvious candidates is more risky for females than males.

Check out Pink Concussions and the work of Prof Willie Stewart
https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/sport/ifindoubt/

University of Glasgow - MyGlasgow - Sport - If in doubt, sit them out

https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/sport/ifindoubt/

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 17/05/2026 18:21

Gretel346 · 17/05/2026 10:35

Yes I'm sure 0.025% will make all the difference. If you were at all serious about fairness in women's sports access you'd be more concerned about the real barriers like socio economic factors rather than the inconsequential.

I'm pretty sure that figure is an order of magnitude too low. Around 0.5% claim to be transgender I think, with roughly half being male.

ThatCyanCat · 17/05/2026 18:46

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 17/05/2026 18:21

I'm pretty sure that figure is an order of magnitude too low. Around 0.5% claim to be transgender I think, with roughly half being male.

I love his demand that women eradicate poverty before they get single sex sports, and that the fact we haven't achieved it (single handedly of course) means we don't actually care about sports.

Do you think he might be new to this? He hasn't done the "but DSDs" shite yet but maybe he's so new he hasn't come across that one.

SidewaysOtter · 17/05/2026 21:20

ThatCyanCat · 17/05/2026 18:46

I love his demand that women eradicate poverty before they get single sex sports, and that the fact we haven't achieved it (single handedly of course) means we don't actually care about sports.

Do you think he might be new to this? He hasn't done the "but DSDs" shite yet but maybe he's so new he hasn't come across that one.

That's always the argument of socialism: "We'll get round to women's rights when we've won the class war. Now put the kettle on will you love, the men have got work to do."

ThatCyanCat · 17/05/2026 21:43

It's the argument of all of them, I think. If it only affects women and girls then it doesn't matter and in fact women are in the wrong if they fail to solve every other socio economic problem before they start on their rights.

Ridiculous, because eradicating poverty is a bit more complicated than reserving women's spaces for women, and actually a lot of issues can be better addressed when women have the choice of single sex spaces. To take one obvious and salient example, a girl who has a fair chance in sporting competition at whatever level she starts at can potentially lift herself out of poverty through it and make headway for other talented young sportswomen to do the same, creating more opportunities and revenue.

The point is really just to prevent women from acting in their own interests. It would actually be very straightforward to allow and enforce single sex spaces - society did it for zillions of years without significant trouble until about ten minutes ago - and then we can get on with all the other pressing socio economic injustices that weigh so heavily on the social consciences of people like Gretel. Seems dumb not to do the easy, obvious and very impactful one first if you're looking for a better world.

Gretel346 · 17/05/2026 22:57

Catiette · 17/05/2026 13:34

Do you realise that there were extended periods during women's campaign for the vote when people were arguing in similar ways to those you do, above?

(Many of the arguments overlap so closely that you could mix and match these in a variety of different ways to those I choose below).


1) Women campaigning for this are obstrusive and obstreperous

"endless opportunities... literally [sic] everywhere... complain incessantly"

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 2026)

"All evidence proves that the adoption of woman suffrage brings into evidence the bold, obtrusive woman whose conduct cheapens the sex and deprives all women of a portion of the chivalry and respect which are their birthright."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 1912)

2) We can safely assume on an anecdotal basis that it isn't of serious concern to the majority - and this is, itself, evidence of its relative unimportance.

"Australian people... don't care enough to turn it into an electoral issue."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 2026)

"The majority of the electors opposed to woman suffrage are less zealous on the subject and less certain to register their votes."

"The fact is that the agitation for woman suffrage is carried on by a small minority of the women of the State, who make up in activity what they lack in numbers."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 1912)

3) To build on the above, even more significantly, not all women want this!

"Younger women tend to be less concerned about private women's spaces than older people. In other words, you don't speak for all women so stop pretending you do."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 2026)

"Let any man ask the women of his acquaintance, and particularly the women who are doing woman's work in the world, the women whom he most respects, and he can satisfy himself as to whether women want the right to vote."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 1912)

4) As such, it's unnecessary to democracy, and even arguably undemocratic

"While equality is a fundamental value, individuals being individuals vary on how the 'rules' should structured."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 2026)

There is a suggestion in the argument presented by the advocates of this amendment that in the absence of woman suffrage democracy is a failure. No American woman with a proper pride in the history of her country would advance this contention.

and

"Conferring suffrage upon the women who claim it would impose suffrage upon the many women who neither desire it as a privilege nor regard it their duty to seek it."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 1912)

5) In any case, immediate economic priorities are naturally of greater significance than more abstract issues of this kind

"Why people may prioritise economic concerns over cultural ones might be because of the consequential impact."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 2026)

"It is better for the community that they devote their energies to the more efficient performance of their present work than divert them to new fields of activity."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 1912)

6) Therefore, if women's concerns and arguments were truly authentic, they would focus on the greater good

"If you were at all serious about fairness in women's sports access you'd be more concerned about the real barriers like socio economic factors rather than the inconsequential."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 2026)

She has done her part in the home and not on the hustings, and her power for good is the greater because she has been content to be a woman and has not striven to be an imitation man.

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 1912)

7) After all, it just doesn't have any meaningful day-to-day impact on most women anyway

"I think it is more a reflection on how much this affects a person's life. For the vast majority of women, it is not a day-to-day issue they have to deal with."

"It's not an issue that has any real world consequences on most people"

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 2026)

"Because the women not so represented suffer no practical injustice which giving the suffrage will remedy."

(on women's fight for the right to distinguish themselves as a distinct political demographic, 1912)


I think these parallels are telling, in multiple ways. Plus ça change, eh?

But the main point is, the above were seen as good arguments back then, just as they can be now. And I do see why - people struggle with going against deeply-ingrained beliefs about relative worth, and with prioritising the long-term abstract issues over the immediate concrete ones etc. I mean, it's true, isn't it? The average woman wasn't necessarily immediately and measurably disadvantaged on a day-to-day basis by not enjoying the vote.

However, that didn't mean she didn't need and deserve it, did it? And it didn't stop society coming round to the idea so absolutely that, in the west at least, the above arguments in this context are now seen as patently absurd and offensive.

Really, then, all that these arguments show is how deep and enduring misogyny is.

And in this respect, as with so many TRA arguments, they're actually arguments for women continuing to fight the good fight.

Apples & oranges. Comparing suffrage to modernity is ludicrous given the obvious cultural & structural differences that functioned as barriers. And Just because a similar styles of argument are made doesn't mean the substance of what is being argued is the same. Hence the mass disinterest particularly from those who it's supposed to help. For a movement to get traction it actually has to make a meaningful impact on people it's supposed to affect like the METOO movement did. Trans people being infinitesimal in numbers don't have that kind of an impact.

Are Australians & Canadians abnormally misogynistic for some reason including their female populations? That would be a a very difficult comparable argument to make given their commitments to women's rights issues over the decade.

Gretel346 · 17/05/2026 23:04

Helleofabore · 17/05/2026 13:42

After every court case Sal Grover & & her fellow travellers are literally everywhere & complain incessantly of the lack of interest so to suggest women can't speak freely is ludicrous.

And yet we have already had a case in Canberra where a female journo had to pay damages to a male person for discussing him being male, Kirrily Smith is appealing her fine for referring to male footballers as being male, and Jasmine Sussex is going to court for discussing a male person breastfeeding in a way he found offensive.

But apparently, women who are pointing out the issues of not being able to exclude male people from female single sex provisions and having to go to court are ‘complaining incessantly’ about their situations and the lack of support.

No you can't use identity to harrass individuals in Australia just like you can't in the UK. But what you can do as any google search will show is go on multiple major media mastheads & complain that no one is listening to GC talking points & repeat them adfinitum.

Gretel346 · 17/05/2026 23:08

Helleofabore · 17/05/2026 14:24

Hey women and girls!

You shouldn’t expect to have any resolution to an issue that negatively impacts your life across many different aspects until the Australian government has fixed the cost of living situation and housing affordability and all these other issues.

What is that you say? Those issues won’t likely be fixed in your generation and in most decades there is a cost of living crisis? Well, then, you just have to wait. Or to take advantage of the next boom time.

What is that you say? It will take years to get the situation resolved and by the next boom so many women and girls will be negatively impacted ? Well… so what. They just have to wait regardless. It is kind.

You don't seem to understand how democracy works which is unsurprising. Governments kind of need interest from voters …you know the people affected to go about changing laws before they do when it comes to rights.

popery · 17/05/2026 23:41

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/05/2026 18:18

There is a significant body of research that shows that women as in biological females have a higher concussion risk than males due to factors such as thinner neurons and weaker neck muscles. Therefore, any contact sport with males which includes things like football, hockey as well as the more obvious candidates is more risky for females than males.

Check out Pink Concussions and the work of Prof Willie Stewart
https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/sport/ifindoubt/

Thanks - that's really interesting!

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 17/05/2026 23:57

Gretel346 · 17/05/2026 23:04

No you can't use identity to harrass individuals in Australia just like you can't in the UK. But what you can do as any google search will show is go on multiple major media mastheads & complain that no one is listening to GC talking points & repeat them adfinitum.

Then why is Tickle using his identity to harass Sall Grover?

Gretel346 · 18/05/2026 01:33

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 17/05/2026 23:57

Then why is Tickle using his identity to harass Sall Grover?

Just the opposite actually. Grover harassed Tickle by directly discriminating because of her identity & effectively continued harassing her by publicly insulting her afterwards on loud speaker on social media encouraging her many followers to join in because Tickle dared to claim discrimination.

Grover lodged her appeal knowing full well she could never win but did so because of the free publicity her pretend victimhood allowed her that facilitated bogus 'fund raising' all the while knowing the continued public harassment of Tickle it enabled.

A truly reprehensible human but unsurprising as her history prior to becoming a gender critical activist was one of serial grifting.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2026 04:01

Gretel346 · 17/05/2026 23:08

You don't seem to understand how democracy works which is unsurprising. Governments kind of need interest from voters …you know the people affected to go about changing laws before they do when it comes to rights.

Gosh. Well, I don’t remember there being any interest from voters in 2013 around change in the sex discrimination act that happened. I mean, maybe I missed it but I don’t think I did.

I mean I remember it quite well as the year of the second Auspol spill and It being an election year where Abbott got in and everything. Yet, that change to the Act wasn’t something that was a feature of any public campaign when it went through or the preceding years. Maybe you remember it differently.

I also remember that at that particular time, the headlines were about the major housing crisis in any town or city around a mine or a couple of hours from a FIFO hub. That obviously did not stop the change to the SDA from happening.

I also must have missed the public debate about that change to the SDA in the preceding years and where Rudd, then Gillard was clear with the public about what it would mean to women. Since apparently it needed to be so widely discussed as an election issue before it was proposed. Is that what you meant happened by the nature of your reply?

But sure, women incessantly complaining on the media should shut the fuck up with that incessant complaining because they are just bigots anyway. And they really should wait for the house prices to be affordable in Sydney again and for there to be a period where no one is complaining that the cost of living is too high.

Oh wait, I personally don’t recall Sydney housing being considered affordable anytime in the past decades. And I don’t remember housing affordability to not be a feature that I remember since the 80s. You know that time mortgage rates were building up to hit 17 % and the build up to that recession Keating said we had to have.

I really don’t remember over the past 40 years where those issues being mentioned as being something women should be focusing on instead, were not something the Australian public was concerned about.

But apparently women should just wait for that golden era of wonderful affordability of housing and groceries and for so many woman and girls to be directly and repeatedly negatively impacted before seeking to campaign to have single sex provisions legally recognised in Australia. In the meantime, they should accept their needs should not distract people from these bigger issues according to some.

How about we just say, anyone trying to shame women that there are bigger issues that concern women and girls just now, and they should consider their timing before incessantly complaining, is just resorting to the usual misogynistic fuckwittery.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2026 04:13

Gretel346 · 18/05/2026 01:33

Just the opposite actually. Grover harassed Tickle by directly discriminating because of her identity & effectively continued harassing her by publicly insulting her afterwards on loud speaker on social media encouraging her many followers to join in because Tickle dared to claim discrimination.

Grover lodged her appeal knowing full well she could never win but did so because of the free publicity her pretend victimhood allowed her that facilitated bogus 'fund raising' all the while knowing the continued public harassment of Tickle it enabled.

A truly reprehensible human but unsurprising as her history prior to becoming a gender critical activist was one of serial grifting.

I think it was more that Sal Grover tried to create a platform where female people could have the confidence that they could advertise for female flatmates and housemates without a male person turning up and to do that required male people to respect that platform was not for them.

Turns out, those male people being told ‘this isn’t for you’ is harassment due to a poorly formed law that now allows no male person to be told a provision is not for them. Plus it turns out that woman highlighting the negative impacts are just incessant in their complaining. And don’t they know they have to wait for a time when no one thinks housing and groceries are too expensive before complaining about those issues. In comparison, a law change the general public had little to no awareness of for years but went through anyway is the cause for those incesssnt complaints in the first place.

NotBadConsidering · 18/05/2026 05:06

Gosh. Well, I don’t remember there being any interest from voters in 2013 around change in the sex discrimination act that happened. I mean, maybe I missed it but I don’t think I did.

You didn’t miss it. The SDA was changed without consultation and certainly without asking the voters. So it can certainly be changed again without asking the voters.

DrBlackbird · 18/05/2026 05:20

"It's not an issue that has any real world consequences on most people"

So screw the women for whom it does have real world consequences. They are irrelevant. Always the utter lack of empathy or even of acknowledgement is breathtaking in its casual disregard for the views of others.

Gretel346 · 18/05/2026 05:40

Helleofabore · 18/05/2026 04:01

Gosh. Well, I don’t remember there being any interest from voters in 2013 around change in the sex discrimination act that happened. I mean, maybe I missed it but I don’t think I did.

I mean I remember it quite well as the year of the second Auspol spill and It being an election year where Abbott got in and everything. Yet, that change to the Act wasn’t something that was a feature of any public campaign when it went through or the preceding years. Maybe you remember it differently.

I also remember that at that particular time, the headlines were about the major housing crisis in any town or city around a mine or a couple of hours from a FIFO hub. That obviously did not stop the change to the SDA from happening.

I also must have missed the public debate about that change to the SDA in the preceding years and where Rudd, then Gillard was clear with the public about what it would mean to women. Since apparently it needed to be so widely discussed as an election issue before it was proposed. Is that what you meant happened by the nature of your reply?

But sure, women incessantly complaining on the media should shut the fuck up with that incessant complaining because they are just bigots anyway. And they really should wait for the house prices to be affordable in Sydney again and for there to be a period where no one is complaining that the cost of living is too high.

Oh wait, I personally don’t recall Sydney housing being considered affordable anytime in the past decades. And I don’t remember housing affordability to not be a feature that I remember since the 80s. You know that time mortgage rates were building up to hit 17 % and the build up to that recession Keating said we had to have.

I really don’t remember over the past 40 years where those issues being mentioned as being something women should be focusing on instead, were not something the Australian public was concerned about.

But apparently women should just wait for that golden era of wonderful affordability of housing and groceries and for so many woman and girls to be directly and repeatedly negatively impacted before seeking to campaign to have single sex provisions legally recognised in Australia. In the meantime, they should accept their needs should not distract people from these bigger issues according to some.

How about we just say, anyone trying to shame women that there are bigger issues that concern women and girls just now, and they should consider their timing before incessantly complaining, is just resorting to the usual misogynistic fuckwittery.

Well, I don’t remember there being any interest from voters in 2013 around change in the sex discrimination act that happened.

Oh yes they were:

"Voters were not consulted via a direct public referendum or specific ballot when the Sex Discrimination Act (SDA) was amended in 2013. Instead, Australians were consulted indirectly through their elected representatives, parliamentary committee inquiries, and public civil society submissions managed by the Australian Parliament House. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
The Sex Discrimination Amendment (Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Intersex Status) Act 2013 was enacted after a thorough legislative consultation and review process:
Inquiry Process: The Australian Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee reviewed the proposed Sex Discrimination Amendment Bill 2013 in early 2013.
Public Submissions: During the committee inquiry, dozens of public submissions were received from civil rights advocacy groups (such as the Law Council of Australia and various legal centers), religious organizations, and state bodies.
Parliamentary Debate: The bill was debated in both the House of Representatives and the Senate, where members represented the broader views and feedback of their constituents before ultimately passing the legislation. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Ultimately, rather than going to a general public vote, the changes to the SDA were driven by parliamentary processes and lobbying by civil society organizations, which led to the legislation's passage into federal law. You can review the details of the Act directly on the Federal Register of Legislation. 1, 2]

Amendments to the Sex Discrimination Act – Regulation Impact Statement – Attorney-General’s Department | The Office of Impact Analysis

https://oia.pmc.gov.au/published-impact-analyses-and-reports/amendments-sex-discrimination-act-regulation-impact-statement

EmmyFr · 18/05/2026 05:50

@Gretel346 sorry but who appointed you the arbiter of what is "modernity" (which you bizarrely oppose to suffrage)? And why would "modernity " necessarily be good? Paedophilia acceptance was "modern" in the 1970s in France, in the sense that it was a break from generally long accepted norms. Doesn't make it good.

Gretel346 · 18/05/2026 05:54

EmmyFr · 18/05/2026 05:50

@Gretel346 sorry but who appointed you the arbiter of what is "modernity" (which you bizarrely oppose to suffrage)? And why would "modernity " necessarily be good? Paedophilia acceptance was "modern" in the 1970s in France, in the sense that it was a break from generally long accepted norms. Doesn't make it good.

Err, no 'opposition' was suggested. That you can't tell the difference between cultural, political & structural conditions between the earlier part of the century & latter is on you.

Gretel346 · 18/05/2026 05:55

Gretel346 · 18/05/2026 05:40

Well, I don’t remember there being any interest from voters in 2013 around change in the sex discrimination act that happened.

Oh yes they were:

"Voters were not consulted via a direct public referendum or specific ballot when the Sex Discrimination Act (SDA) was amended in 2013. Instead, Australians were consulted indirectly through their elected representatives, parliamentary committee inquiries, and public civil society submissions managed by the Australian Parliament House. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
The Sex Discrimination Amendment (Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Intersex Status) Act 2013 was enacted after a thorough legislative consultation and review process:
Inquiry Process: The Australian Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee reviewed the proposed Sex Discrimination Amendment Bill 2013 in early 2013.
Public Submissions: During the committee inquiry, dozens of public submissions were received from civil rights advocacy groups (such as the Law Council of Australia and various legal centers), religious organizations, and state bodies.
Parliamentary Debate: The bill was debated in both the House of Representatives and the Senate, where members represented the broader views and feedback of their constituents before ultimately passing the legislation. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Ultimately, rather than going to a general public vote, the changes to the SDA were driven by parliamentary processes and lobbying by civil society organizations, which led to the legislation's passage into federal law. You can review the details of the Act directly on the Federal Register of Legislation. 1, 2]

And let's not also forget this legislation got BI PARTISAN support.

EmmyFr · 18/05/2026 06:02

Well, you literally said "comparing suffrage to modernity is ludicrous" in reply to a post comparing women's rights to vote to women's rights to have male-free spaces. If this doesn't mean "modernity" is in your eyes the abolition of such spaces, pray, what is it?

Gretel346 · 18/05/2026 06:11

EmmyFr · 18/05/2026 06:02

Well, you literally said "comparing suffrage to modernity is ludicrous" in reply to a post comparing women's rights to vote to women's rights to have male-free spaces. If this doesn't mean "modernity" is in your eyes the abolition of such spaces, pray, what is it?

You seem confused.
The context of that discussion was whether I was using the same talking points as the anti suffrage proponents were. My point was even if my talking points were the same the conditions weren't nor was the substance of claims by the suffragette movement so using the same line of resistance is irrelevant.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2026 07:42

Gretel346 · 18/05/2026 05:40

Well, I don’t remember there being any interest from voters in 2013 around change in the sex discrimination act that happened.

Oh yes they were:

"Voters were not consulted via a direct public referendum or specific ballot when the Sex Discrimination Act (SDA) was amended in 2013. Instead, Australians were consulted indirectly through their elected representatives, parliamentary committee inquiries, and public civil society submissions managed by the Australian Parliament House. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
The Sex Discrimination Amendment (Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Intersex Status) Act 2013 was enacted after a thorough legislative consultation and review process:
Inquiry Process: The Australian Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee reviewed the proposed Sex Discrimination Amendment Bill 2013 in early 2013.
Public Submissions: During the committee inquiry, dozens of public submissions were received from civil rights advocacy groups (such as the Law Council of Australia and various legal centers), religious organizations, and state bodies.
Parliamentary Debate: The bill was debated in both the House of Representatives and the Senate, where members represented the broader views and feedback of their constituents before ultimately passing the legislation. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Ultimately, rather than going to a general public vote, the changes to the SDA were driven by parliamentary processes and lobbying by civil society organizations, which led to the legislation's passage into federal law. You can review the details of the Act directly on the Federal Register of Legislation. 1, 2]

All that means was that it was tabled in parliament and voted on and interested campaign groups wrote in to support it.

There was no significant discussion about it specifically in media and it wasn’t driven by a long campaigning process from the public . So unless people were watching the tabling of the bill, or knew about it because they were with the lobby groups, it wasn’t something the public knew about.

You can keep posting that copy and paste, but if doesn’t mean there was any specific consultation about it where the public was made aware specifically of what was happening and what all the ramifications were to them.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2026 07:50

NotBadConsidering · 18/05/2026 05:06

Gosh. Well, I don’t remember there being any interest from voters in 2013 around change in the sex discrimination act that happened. I mean, maybe I missed it but I don’t think I did.

You didn’t miss it. The SDA was changed without consultation and certainly without asking the voters. So it can certainly be changed again without asking the voters.

I know NotBad, I was there too and it most certainly didn’t get public media debate.

The fact that there was little opposition to it also meant it wasn’t widely discussed. If it was widely discussed maybe someone would have twigged about the repercussions of the change. It is a mess

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2026 07:54

I think this was the case in other countries too. The Dentons doc etc advises flying under the radar to get policies and legislation through, after all. It’s long been a TRA tactic.

Gretel346 · 18/05/2026 08:01

Helleofabore · 18/05/2026 07:50

I know NotBad, I was there too and it most certainly didn’t get public media debate.

The fact that there was little opposition to it also meant it wasn’t widely discussed. If it was widely discussed maybe someone would have twigged about the repercussions of the change. It is a mess

What part of elected representatives, parliamentary debate, & bi partisan support don't you understand?

If it wasn't what their constituents wanted where was the back lash? Oh that's right, 10 years later when it became a convenient political right wing talking point to avoid their absent affordability policy it 'suddenly' got legs….but 'mysteriously' has no widespread grass roots support.