Watch in real time as Trans Reddit turns on one of it's own for suggesting that maybe they are biological men and arguing they are not makes them look unstable.

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1t0t604/trans_girl_says_were_all_biological_males/

Gender is based on sexed bodies and the presumption of biological sex. This is not in dispute.

You are implying that I can opt out...of something. The sex realist proof of this statement is that I choose to wear a costume; I am Marie Antoinette pretending to be poor and my existence has been entirely voluntary because of thoughtless and selfish purposes.

Are you saying I deserve sexist maltreatment because it is all because of a costume?

You, like many men, are suffering very badly from main character syndrome.

I was responding to your post which used the word 'you,' your,' or 'you're' at least nine times, counted on quick review. I apologise. I did not understand that your thoughts were addressing the apparently very royal trans you.

You don't get to ask me what you deserve, you don't get to ask me what you can opt out of, you don't get to ask me for instructions on how to "unshroud" your life, you don't get to ask me for solutions to your problems. I'm not character in your life for you to interact with or the anti-hero to your protagonist. I don't have advice for you, I don't have opinions as to what you should do. Don't treat me as an NPC in your life. I'm not one.

Okay then, I am done responding to your posts. You can feel free to continue to explain to me how you believe my life is lived.

… just another man, the main player in his own fantasy world.

no one deserves sexist maltreatment. Including those women who now have to suffer men mansplaining what a woman is and then being threatened with violence, rape and death when they disagree. There is nothing more sexist than a man claiming he is a woman, despite women saying he is not. There is nothing more sexist than men using outdated, sexist gender stereotypes to insist they are women. Those stereotypes that have been used to oppress women and put them in boxes are now being used by men to claim they are women because they follow these “gender stereotypes”.

Do you pinky promise….

yes, it can’t be an actual truly held belief, otherwise why would you need to argue it on here? If you thought your biological sex HAD changed you would give up the hormones and surgeries and breathe a sigh of relief as none of the issues for trans people apply to you anymore!

Sometimes I think perhaps it’s blind hope, like dying people on a drug trial thinking their tumour has shrunk, but everyone can see they are getting sicker every day.
That's why people are so #bekind to trans people, deep down they feel terribly sad for them, all the damage they do to themselves, and for what?

But then they enjoy it too much (look at me doing a topless protest! Look at me peeing in the women’s toilets! Look at My Boobs!)

If they weren’t invading women’s spaces and forcing weird beliefs on us all, I would enjoy watching the interesting behaviour as much as the flat earthers. But no, entitled pervy men ruin everything.

Nope, or they wilfully deny it

An organisation requiring identification [of] gender/sex is confused.

And probably has been deliberately confused by the self-serving flim-flam brigade.

Sex is real, everyone on the planet has a sex. A tiny tiny number of people have complex medical conditions that make reproductive life difficult, but they are still one sex or the other, and were so from the moment of conception. Sex is relevant to their medical history. Sex is relevant to their access to some spaces.

Gender is not real. It is a grammatical term that has been adopted in the last few decades by some ambitious academics (in years to come, when the history of the collapse of the British Higher Education system is analysed, gender will be a little corner of the overall disaster of mangerialism and research frameworks).

Some people enjoy the extended dressing-up game that is gender. Most of us don't. We are male or we are female and we don't need to play at being masculine or feminine (two more terms that relate to grammar, not living things).

So there is no sex/gender.

There is sex.

Gender is never relevant except to the person playing it, like rugby or table tennis.

Good lord. It doenst matter if you've got a certificate and everything- sex cannot.be changed.

If trans women are women for all purposes, what does the trans mean?

I started reading this thread at the start and just came back to it and the delight of Onepost’s musings.

My man take away from reading the conversation last night is how male that poster’s writing style is. The attempts at seizing power, the condescension, the absolute certainty of position while being totally wrong. When even writing style gives away your sex that’s certainly something.

As for the actual content, I think that’s been dealt with admirably by the group.

My main take away from reading the conversation last night is how male that poster’s writing style is. The attempts at seizing power, the condescension, the absolute certainty of position while being totally wrong

And how adolescent. All that repetition of sex realist, as though mockery will make reality go away.

I am a mother. It impacted my career in many ways. I've never been an adult man.

I thought that onepost was openly trans. Thus, was momentarily confused by ‘never been’ until I appreciated the qualifying ’adult’ male ie transitioned before 18 presumably. The being ‘a mother’ though means children are involved in the pretence and that is sad. Philip Larkin was so right.

I was thinking about this.

one post has said before iirc that their children are adopted.

i wonder have they been told the truth about them being adopted? And have they been told that onepost is trans?

adoption is, in a sense, a legal fiction. It makes the child a child of the parents for all legal purposes.

what it doesn’t do is mean that the adoptive mother gestated and birthed that child. It doesn’t mean that the genetic heritage of the adoptive parents is that child’s For example, the child will still have any genetically transferred disease or genetic disease risk that come from their birth parents. I’ve seen this in my own wider family.

All that repetition of sex realist, as though mockery will make reality go away.

Quite. Whenever I read those words, my head does it in a sneery kind of voice. Like biological reality itself is offensive. But then I guess it probably is personally offensive, if someone presents it as the "official" reality and you believe in something "higher".

I could imagine someone who is deeply religious, and believes in creationism, applying a similar tone to the words "big bang" when presented with an argument that science can explain the beginning of the universe and the creation of the earth.

TBF to the believers in gender identity, I imagine it feels very personal when someone "denies" the foundation upon which your own reality "exists". By contrast, most people (except vicars, priests etc) don't build an identity that is this interwoven with their belief in a deity. And even vicars/priests don't modify their bodies as a result of their belief. Gender identity belief - which includes the rejection of biological sex as "real" for some people - goes far deeper than standard religious belief, including body modifications in some cases. This is probably why all but religious radicals would take it on the chin when people say that they don't believe in god.

Unfortunately though, just like we've seen in religions since forever, some people will feign a belief to get away with some awful, fetishistic behaviour. Probably not what I'm meant to think (in terms of feminism) but I actually really enjoyed watching that Kenny Everett You Tube video. I remember it being on TV when I was a child - my parents were very careful about what we watched, so I'm going to ask my dad his thoughts on this versus Biggus. To me, it gives a totally different vibe to the Ru Paul shows of today (Biggus would fit right in to that vibe) because it's clear that it's mocking the very idea of behaving like Cupid Stunt does. It's not exactly a feminist message, granted, but it's drawing a clear line between what's ok and what's not. If he is mocking women (personally, I don't think he is), he's mocking anyone who thinks they can stick on a massive pair of rubber boobs and expect others to accept this far more.

I think that's because trans identified women can't ignore their biology so easily.
Trans identified or not, they still have to contend with risk of pregnancy and menstruation.

Scientific illiteracy is not big or clever

If your solution is 'simply out yourself as a trans person,' my answer would be 'you have a misaligned sense of power and oppression.'

It's not "outing yourself as a trans person" to tell your children (and partner) the truth about how you were born and how your life changed as a result of the choices you felt you needed to make to feel comfortable with your body. Obviously this would all need to be age appropriate when it comes to your children, presumably starting with the information about them being adopted and probably not even talking about the sex you were registered at birth until they are adults. But surely they deserve to know why there are no photos of you (I assume) as a child or you can't/won't (I assume) share memories of growing up that would resonate with their experiences. For example, if you have a daughter, how will you dodge questions about awkward moments relating to periods? Would you just lie, would you shut the conversation down or would you use it as an opportunity to start building up to sharing more details in the future (when your daughter - if you have one - is old enough)?

It's also not "outing" to talk to your doctor honestly about your medical history so that you can get the right medical treatment. Someone whose sex was recorded as male at birth, who has had puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones, will need medical treatments and thresholds that match this profile.

Lastly, it's not "outing" to recognise that you can subtly self-exclude from single-sex spaces and services by using alternatives. If you really do pass (very few people do, but perhaps you're one of them) you can still respect the fact that your sex was recorded as male at birth and that there are some countries which have laws which mean you can't use women's spaces and services.

The god complex it takes to tell every woman on this thread she's wrong about her own sex, that biology is wrong and that the law is 'bad' law because it agrees with the women on this thread and biology, is quite the spectacle.

@GenderlessVoid @Taztoy (and others) am so sorry that you’ve experienced the retraumatising of your experiences of sexual abuse and rape by posters on these boards. Taz, I remembered the inclination poster - I am glad he isn’t around anymore (at least under that name). Genderless, I hope you don’t mind but I went back to look at your posts and I was really surprised and quite disappointed when I saw who said they were leaving you to “wallow” . Rightfully, he isn’t applying that to his own situation/fight so why to you? It was unnecessary, arrogant, heartless and cruel.🌷

I have difficulty in believing that any man who intentionally seeks out women focused on women's needs and rights, and spends a very great deal of time scolding and lecturing this specific group of women about his personal situation and perspective, claiming his position of authority from his being a man with a gender identity, and a desire to inflict his political choices on very obviously non consenting women, has any real concern about being 'outed'. And has no expectation of being agreed with. Which leaves questions really as to what all the attention focused on these women in this one quiet corner of the internet is really all about.

You seem confused.

Any certificate is assumed to reflect material reality, and is used as a proxy for it.

A certificate that doesn’t match material reality is incorrect, and can be considered fraudulent.

A certificate that doesn’t reflect material reality does not change the underlying reality.

A fake marriage certificate doesn’t mean you are really married. A fake driving licence doesn’t mean you passed your driving test. A fake exam certificate doesn’t give you qualifications or knowledge and skills that you never obtained.

You seem to believe that certificates can create and change underlying material reality, which is pretty deluded.

Post-modernism is best left as an academic thought experiment, it doesn’t work in contact with the real world.