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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?

1000 replies

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
MyrtleLion · 27/04/2026 23:15

Hedgehogforshort · 27/04/2026 21:11

The first time i encountered a reclining chair was when i was a teenager when we emigrated to Canada in 1976.

We arrived at our accommodation and dad occupied the reclining chair, immediately.

TV was duly switched on (via another novelty the remote) and we were confronted with an advert for “panty hose”

where two women pranced across the screen singing flatten your fanny today!!

My dad nearly fell of his reclining chair given the English sensibilities of the day.

As an aside why does nobody discuss what it feels like to be a man, i mean i knew my dad was a man because he took possession of the remote and the reclining chair, without question.

But I do that. Does that mean I'm a man with my TV almightyness while I'm reclining on my sofa that reclines or my recliner chair?

New bigger reclining sofa arriving in June.

Waitwhat23 · 27/04/2026 23:16

DialSquare · 27/04/2026 23:00

I like it. Mr Tumnus chic. It’s all the rage.

He looks very contemplative

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?
BusyAzureTraybake · 27/04/2026 23:17

TL;DR
Gametes. Small = male. Large = female

MyrtleLion · 27/04/2026 23:18

Boiledbeetle · 27/04/2026 22:48

To be fair my cat does own one of the three recliners. He is not impressed if I have two visitors at the same time and he loses his chair. He sits on the pouffe judging us.

As he should!

Hedgehogforshort · 27/04/2026 23:18

MyrtleLion · 27/04/2026 23:15

But I do that. Does that mean I'm a man with my TV almightyness while I'm reclining on my sofa that reclines or my recliner chair?

New bigger reclining sofa arriving in June.

I was talking the seventies Myrtle if you have hold of the remote and occupy the reclining chair , then you are a PROPER FEMINIST.

SidewaysOtter · 27/04/2026 23:20

Boiledbeetle · 27/04/2026 23:01

They do actual furry crocs! You can pet them!

https://www.crocs.co.uk/p/classic-unfurgettable-animal-clog/212002.html

Those are such a crime against humanity that they should be in The Hague.

Waxingmoons · 27/04/2026 23:21

Brave insider women! You give better than you get 🥳

Love the furry slippers btw!

MyrtleLion · 27/04/2026 23:22

Hedgehogforshort · 27/04/2026 23:18

I was talking the seventies Myrtle if you have hold of the remote and occupy the reclining chair , then you are a PROPER FEMINIST.

I LOVE THIS!!!

I am indeed a PROPER FEMINIST!!!

I actually control THREE remotes: TV, Virgin Media box and THE VOLUME!

I was just about to go to bed when I read @Boiledbeetle's siren call. So I am off now.

Hedgehogforshort · 27/04/2026 23:24

Boiledbeetle · 27/04/2026 23:01

They do actual furry crocs! You can pet them!

https://www.crocs.co.uk/p/classic-unfurgettable-animal-clog/212002.html

OMG i must have them

Davros · 27/04/2026 23:36

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · 27/04/2026 18:43

I’m proudly pro-trans but I strongly suspect your post is going to fall on very deaf ears, because:

  1. It was a bit patronising, sorry to point that out.
  2. mumsnet is a bit TERF-y. Don’t know why, but it is.

Hope you have your tin hat on!

Mumsnet isnt “a bit terfy” it’s a website containing 100s of sections. You probably only visit FWR which was specifically created for women to discuss the proliferation of trans ideology and the harm it does to women. No surprise that’s what is discussed on this part of the site. Do you ever pop to the Elderly Parents, Films, Baby Names boards or the hundreds of others? Areas where mostly women also exchange ideas and experiences and support eachother. Those 100s of other sections presumably don’t appeal to you

Bertiebiscuit · 27/04/2026 23:42

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 27/04/2026 20:24

It’s a funny thing. I have no need to do anything at all to be female. No matter what I wear, say, feel or do I’m a woman.

Other people, not so much!

Yep. I usually wear trousers and trainers, i don't shave my armpits, never wear stilettos, don't have long nails, no false eyelashes or padded bras, no fishnet tights, or any tights tbh, always socks, rucksack not handbag, plain garments, no frills, no flowery patterns, no frilly knickers, no shreiking or mincing, no low cut tops or miniskirts, and yet i still don't have to persuade anyone that I'm a woman. Never needed to. Yep, born an actual girl baby, actual grown woman now, simples. Never been mistaken for a man.

5128gap · 27/04/2026 23:46

I have a question that isn't 'what is a woman'.
My question is, what makes you a woman? Have you an extra X that outweighs your Y? Have you had your brain compared with that of a woman and found it to be 'the same'? Or what other aspect of science have you used to determine your womanhood?
Or perhaps for you it wasn't so scientific, and it was a 'deep inner knowledge' you were actually a woman, despite having the body of a man? A feeling, if you will.

If so, can you describe the feeling? Because as a woman, I have no idea what being a woman feels like by comparison to being a man. I only know that woman is the word for people with a body like mine, which is an adult human female one. I'm genuinely unaware of what adult human female feelings are. Can you describe them and explain how you knew that's what you have rather than male ones?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 27/04/2026 23:46

To misquote James Carville,

It's rape and pregnancy, stupid.

100% of men swan through life knowing for certain, from the moment that they get the "birds and bees" lesson, that they can never get pregnant. This empowers them to take risks of sexual assault that women dare not take. Most men can, however, force a pregnancy on a woman if they choose to.

100% of women can never make another person pregnant. We cannot use rape as a means of causing someone to fear forced pregnancy. This means that each woman lacks the structural power that every man has, that comes from having half the population scared at some level§ that he might rape them force them to become pregnant. Most women can become pregnant, including through rape.

What differentiates men and women is whether the Wolffian duct or Mullerian duct developed in utero. No one with a developed Wolffian duct can become pregnant. No one with a developed Mullerian duct can force someone to become pregnant through rape.

Putting a dress on does not change this. Claiming pseudoneurological bullshit doesn't change this. And it is bullshit: if there was a brain difference between men and women, we could prove whether someone was trans by scanning their brains, slashing gender clinic waiting lists.

§ And before anyone claims "nonsense, I don't go around being scared of men": Really? Never? You never caught a taxi at night instead of walking? You never covered your drink in a bar so that you don't get spiked? You never realised that a man was walking behind you and felt even a little nervous? All those "commonsense safety things" your mum taught you were to try to reduce your risk of rape. Your brother did not get taught them.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/04/2026 00:35

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:48

And to anyone still on the fence, take a look - a proper look - at the first few responses.

Are these rational, intelligent, or inquisitive responses and a desire to engage? Do they seem like the kind of statements made by empathetic people? Or might they possibly, just possibly, appear to underline my opening post? 🤔

You are getting these responses because your supposedly killer arguments have been debunked here so many times we can do it in our sleep now.

You turn up with your Now That's What I Call Sexist Bullshit 2016 edition, don't even bother to do the most cursory search or browse of the history, or even just ask an AI for a quick overview of whether your talking points have landed here in the past and what the arguments against them were so you can, y'know, actually start at that point instead of dragging us all back to Genderist Logical Fallacies 101 again, and then get all sniffy no one is taking you seriously.

Did you really think women here are going to bother going round the same old path yet again just because, this time, it's you?

Oh mate, I'm cringing for you.

Hang around, be respectful, get a feel for what's really going on here before you jump in and try to dictate the conversation. You'll get much more out of it. You might learn something about women and what it really means to be us.

And who knows, maybe you really will be FWR's Neo, our Kwisatz Haderach, the Alice Cooper to our Wayne and Garth, the one to finally make that killer argument that convinces us that female people really shouldn't have the moral rights to define for ourselves who we are and what rights matter to us.

But mate, even Neo, Paul and Alice put the work in first. If you want to convince us we are wrong, you got to earn it!

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/04/2026 00:38

Waitwhat23 · 27/04/2026 23:16

He looks very contemplative

Oh dear God I had got Mr Tumnus muddled up with Mr Tumble. This makes much more sense.

lornad00m · 28/04/2026 01:56

Davros · 27/04/2026 23:36

Mumsnet isnt “a bit terfy” it’s a website containing 100s of sections. You probably only visit FWR which was specifically created for women to discuss the proliferation of trans ideology and the harm it does to women. No surprise that’s what is discussed on this part of the site. Do you ever pop to the Elderly Parents, Films, Baby Names boards or the hundreds of others? Areas where mostly women also exchange ideas and experiences and support eachother. Those 100s of other sections presumably don’t appeal to you

They're not interested in the things that women come together to talk about. Unless it validates their fetish. Elderly parent issues and discussions about baby names just isn't going to deliver the goods I'm afraid.

I do wonder if there are certain area they may lurk if they have particular 'predilections'. But that doesn't bear thinking about tbqh.

Helleofabore · 28/04/2026 02:45

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

OP, I wondered what part of your post was probably one of the most enlightening. Then I realised the part I always came back to was this group of words.

”In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender women”

Not only did you believe this was ‘an essay’, but you also believed this was ‘cutting edge science’ and that both of these statements ‘validated’ male people in their subjective reality where they were any type of woman.

I actually think you nailed it with those words on so many levels!

Have you been applauded elsewhere for your massive insight into the workings of the transgender mind? I surely hope so. I hope you spread this insight far and wide.

Most illuminating, OP.

EmpressaurusKitty · 28/04/2026 05:58

lornad00m · 28/04/2026 01:56

They're not interested in the things that women come together to talk about. Unless it validates their fetish. Elderly parent issues and discussions about baby names just isn't going to deliver the goods I'm afraid.

I do wonder if there are certain area they may lurk if they have particular 'predilections'. But that doesn't bear thinking about tbqh.

Some men have been loudly shocked that Mumsnet wasn’t all about lipstick & pushchairs.

TheHereticalOne · 28/04/2026 06:34

EmpressaurusKitty · 28/04/2026 05:58

Some men have been loudly shocked that Mumsnet wasn’t all about lipstick & pushchairs.

Edited

Please could you not bandy that about? To bastardise a phrase: if the men find out we can have thoughts and opinions of our own, THEY'RE GOING TO TELL THE CHURCH.

ThePM · 28/04/2026 06:55

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:48

And to anyone still on the fence, take a look - a proper look - at the first few responses.

Are these rational, intelligent, or inquisitive responses and a desire to engage? Do they seem like the kind of statements made by empathetic people? Or might they possibly, just possibly, appear to underline my opening post? 🤔

Give over with desire to engage, these are women who can dismantle every logical fallacy in there.

What is it that you are actually saying? because even if we accept your dodgy science you’re still not even internally coherent. If a woman is a person who says “I am a woman” then why all the palaver over brains and chromosomes.

lastly people might pretend to believe like Vaclav Havels greengrocer, but they don’t really. Trans people have always been entitled to live their lives as they see fit - up to the point where it starts making demands on other people. I don’t make any demands on your dress, but I won’t be told to go along with lies.

Waitwhat23 · 28/04/2026 07:17

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/04/2026 00:38

Oh dear God I had got Mr Tumnus muddled up with Mr Tumble. This makes much more sense.

I'd create another image with Mr Tumble instead but I have a suspicion that the result might be horrifying!

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/04/2026 07:27

I dunno hazels style seems very familiar! I wonder if they used to be a butterfly or posses a rolling pin

PriOn1 · 28/04/2026 07:37

ThePM · 28/04/2026 06:55

Give over with desire to engage, these are women who can dismantle every logical fallacy in there.

What is it that you are actually saying? because even if we accept your dodgy science you’re still not even internally coherent. If a woman is a person who says “I am a woman” then why all the palaver over brains and chromosomes.

lastly people might pretend to believe like Vaclav Havels greengrocer, but they don’t really. Trans people have always been entitled to live their lives as they see fit - up to the point where it starts making demands on other people. I don’t make any demands on your dress, but I won’t be told to go along with lies.

I see many others didn’t make it past the “Look at the first answers” post.

I may possibly go on and read more of the thread, but I stuck at that one too. What the OM doesn’t realise (or perhaps was pretending not to, though that might require a level of personal insight that has carefully been laid aside with the donning of the frilly ladyknickers) we were all either so bored we couldn’t read because our eyelids were drooping so much, or they were rolling so hard that reading became too much of a chore.

I am now humming The Vagina Anthem in my head. That expresses the sentiment well enough, I think.

Men who don ladyknickers are so tedious, aren’t they?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 28/04/2026 07:41

I got as far as anti-'trans' and lost interest, I did enjoy all the comments though, they were worth reading. 😂

WittyLimeBiscuit · 28/04/2026 07:49

No one is denying the existence of people with a DSD (disorder of sexual development), but to use individuals with one of these conditions to justifying self-ID is contemptible.
We all know that the men flouncing around 'womaning' with stupidly stereotyped views of women's behaviour are just that, LARPing men

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