Grace Campbell - Alastair Campbell

[BlueLegume]

If I have missed any threads already started about this then apologies.

I am literally lost for words on the post she added to her podcast along with Charlie Craggs.

My own daughter has been lost to this cause. I am hoping I get her back. How utterly vile can a young woman be - Grace Campbell - towards women who have worked so hard to give her such privilege. I might be ugly and a freak Grace with awful hair. But I am not a mean girl.

Personally, I think “why” is the interesting bit. I don’t think there is any dispute that what she said was appalling, but I am curious to understand why she is still so utterly captured by an ideology that has caused her harm and hurt.

We can see her fear of upsetting CC in the video. We hear her misogynistic criticism of other women. We sense the undercurrent of centuries old tropes about rape and we feel the trauma that underlies it.

We understand that Grace isn’t the independent young woman she claims to be, and we recognise this phase. Many of us too, have had to learn that being a feminist still means living in the world as it is, not as we think it should be. It’s beyond frustrating that Grace and others of her ilk can identify the problem of VAWG and not the cause - or the necessary steps to protect all biological women.

TL:DR Grace has yet to learn to listen to women and stop centring men.

Much of liberal feminism is just misogyny in a new disguise, though.

Depressingly true.

Depressing because of how many young women have been told bullshit lies dressed up as liberal feminism. That pole / lap dancing is empowering and that ‘sex positivity’ is women claiming their sexuality or that ‘open’ relationships are progressive or having a ‘safe’ word whilst being choked is normal, that vanilla sex is boring and and, of course, the main one sold to girls at university that ‘sex work is work’ and a harm free way to make money.

All of those serve some not very nice men. Definitely are not serving our daughters. Definitely not progressive.

Being kind is normal, and should be what everyone aspires to.

Reality, I'm afraid, very much includes trans people. Getting vexed about their existence, supportive parents, clothing choices and even adjectives (!!) is a ridiculous waste of time.

Raging that trans people dare to exist and express themselves without your permission is controlling behaviour, as is demanding that a child falls into line & agrees with you.

Please get help. Seriously.

No one is questioning anyone's right to 'exist'.

You already know that though - you just need to twist the narrative. We get what you are trying to do. But no one is buying it.

What is being questioned is that humans can change sex. We all know they can't. Or that some nebulous concept of 'gender' is more important than sex for wider society. It transparently isn't.

Telling lies about any of this, to vulnerable young people, is the opposite of kind.

I agree, I really hope she can find peace and happiness som

I've met quite a few people like Grace Campbell. They're the type of people who go on pro-Palestine marches and say spiteful things about Jews, who sing along to hip hop lyrics that glorify violence, and excuse terrible behaviour when it's their side.

They're part of the 'in' group and that gives them full licence to attack the 'out' group (gender critical women are of course part of the 'out' group). There are many examples of this mentality: high school 'mean girls', office bullies, all the way to witch hunters, totalitarian regimes etc.

I have no sympathy for people who behave like this. Their behaviour is toxic.

"Last November, after a string of relationships with men had gone wrong, I decided to go to Los Angeles for a few months to try to fulfil my lifelong dream of having sex with an A-list celebrity."

Bit of an eye-opener. Because, to me, this practically shouts low self-esteem, compounded by too many relationships with twats and so deciding that her only possible currency and value lies in her fuckability.

Furthermore porn is littered with men for whom that lack of respect for women is a massive turn on. And men who want to be women epitomise this. AGP has turned contempt for women into a fetish, ffs

Maybe Grace wanting to please this man, whilst clearly being rather worried about him, being encouraged to disrespect other women, and finding value in that, isn't much of a surprise.

I bet her dad's attitude hasn't helped either.

If she ever reads this, my advice would be to find value in something else. Maybe writing, which she would appear to be rather good at.

At 32 Grace Campbell is not a baby, and she has this platform purely because of her parentage.

What’s truly ridiculous is imagining that sex is neither fixed nor central to female oppression.

Indeed.

Your approach seems very muddled, and based on some very odd beliefs. That's fine in itself, you're entitled to your view, but to preach at other people and try to pressurise or coerced them into going along with what you think is the correct way to think and act is not healthy.

So, gently, can I suggest you think about taking your own advice?

if being "kind" puts women and girls in danger, discomfort or disadvantages them, thats suicidal empathy and we should be wary of being coerced into doing what some males want at our detriment and at risk of our rights.
I agree,that trans people exist and its not my business what they wear or call themselves. If their parents are supportive great with the exception of the medical and surgical transition of children ,thats abusive. If being kind means male trans people try to access female single sex spaces ,services and sports then it's a no from me.
The "raging" is understandable when people use misogyny (as in GC and CC did in the subject of their thread ,they weren't very "kind" to women and girls) to threaten women's rights.
Please get help . Seriously.

The fact that Grace Campbell is well educated is part of the problem. It's mainly middle class, educated people who buy into the TWAW and TMAM propaganda. I count myself as middle class, but I know the type.

If she'd been poorly educated, she would be far more rooted in reality.

Jesus actual Christ. You're a bit late, perspective was discovered several centuries ago.

Ms Campbell is uncouth, unfunny, unpleasant and uninformed, despite her privileged background and connections, and seems to have a habit of making very poor life choices. That’s about all you can say about her.

I’m actually finding the derails more interesting, because once again they expose the idiocy of genderism. The logic on display here is especially egregious (love this word).

What "perspective" do you think i don't have on this?

Being kind is indeed normal. Tell that to this podcaster and her pal shrieking 'ugly!' and cackling about allegedly bad hair dos.

No-one denies anyone's right to exist, such a typical dramalama ally comment . What we have said is you cannot change sex and use womens facilities. Fixed that for you.

Nothing about gender ideology has ever made any sense to me. I am unable to go along with it for a great many reasons but the root cause is that it's nonsense. Nobody can change sex. How people dress, how long their hair is, whether they wear makeup, flat shoes etc etc, which hobbies, toys and interests they choose - all aspects of personality. Nothing whatsoever to do with the unavoidable reality of going through life in a female body or a male body, which is not a choice, it's the end result of the chromosomes we acquire at conception.

If my daughter had ever told me she believed she was actually male I would be kindly but firmly telling her that she was and always would be female. I would also be seeking mental health support for her. I would want to find out what she thought would change about her life if she belonged to the opposite sex.

The key difference that nobody can do anything about is reproductive roles, which is a function of biology. Women and girls are treated differently in many ways because of their biology and because of illogical beliefs about how that biology limits or shapes their life options. This can be challenged. It's desperately sad that some confused young women have been conned into thinking that they can opt out of that sexism by pretending to be male. Much healthier to face reality.

I wouldn't be taking to the internet to try to cajole others into going along with her deluded beliefs.

Tell that to this podcaster and her pal shrieking 'ugly!' and cackling about allegedly bad hair dos.

Yes, it's not struck me before, but this level of comedy is of the ilk of (say) Benny Hill or 'Take my wife...please', and that didn't age well. They say one of the recipes for comedy is Tragedy plus Time - we certainly have the first.

He’s still pretty well thought of, just not by right wing activists. The average person isn’t that political and not that bothered - they only paid attention to the football scores in the first place.

Yes, and I think this is the crux of why people like Grace Campbell act the way they do. Deep down they KNOW their position is indefensible, and that they’ve chosen to Be Kind to a few people they know personally and then extend the “kindness” into national policy no matter what the actual outcomes are for everyone else.

Their only fallback is deciding that everyone else is bad and they are good, so anything they do is justified. It’s where the thought terminating cliche starts.

Any woman paying attention to issues around women's sport will be feeling utterly let down by him. He's been appallingly cowardly on that issue.

Perspective has always been there. Its simple physics.

What Renaissance painters explored about how to portray that natural phenomenon (they didn't discover it) was a bit more complex, and largely to do with how religious representations had flattened the picture plane during the medieval period. Giotto reasserting human scale and place in the world was part of the precursor to the Enlightenment.

There are parallels (ha!) here with the assertion that a gendered soul outweighs biological sex.

'The world goes on being round" 'eppor su muove', etc. Forgive my maybe misremembered spelling.

For the parents of gender confused children out there who have made a choice to confirm.

That was your choice to make. None of us have insight as to how and why you made that decision. It is not our business.

However, you made that decision without wider buy-in that this was the right thing to do for society at large. Given this, you could not expect everyone else to affirm also.

There are multiple good reasons why people refuse to pretend that men can become women and vice versa. You have no right to try to emotionally blackmail or intimidate people into supporting the position you took. That is the bottom line.