Is there ANY concern among Trans Rights Activists for the health wellbeing of adolescents receiving gender affirming drugs that the findings of the Finnish study might be true

[mardirousse]

You would expect Trans Rights Activists to be concerned about the physical mental health of gender questioning children, yet I haven't seen a single TRA express the slightest concern that gender affirming care might be causing harm to young kids, who they see as transgender. Not here, not on r/transgenderuk, not on x.
They are attacking the credibility of the study, but given its size and the very shocking findings, why aren't at least some of them expressing a little concern that there might be something in it? I mean, these are vulnerable kids, and they're taking really powerful drugs with major long-term consequences, and now it looks like there's evidence that it may be doing the opposite of what it's supposed to...
How could you not be concerned, whatever your agenda? They're kids!
Aren't trans rights activists interested in the right of trans kids to be safe and healthy?
Am I missing something?

But that was actually misandrist treatment! If you were a woman it might have been appropriate.

I wish people would link the study they're talking about. Not moaning, just makes it easier than having to go and search for it.

What's your weight to do with anything? Is that another area where I'm failing at "female"?

My own father is 5 foot 1. Mem can be short. Men can be light. What on earth is the point of referencing this?

I take issue with being told I have a very good chance of surviving any assault, really. Perhaps I should have just said that.

Is there ANY concern among Trans Rights Activists for the health wellbeing of adolescents receiving gender affirming drugs that the findings of the Finnish study might be true
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5515170-is-there-any-concern-among-trans-rights-activists-for-the-health-wellbeing-of-adolescents-receiving-gender-affirming-drugs-that-the-findings-of-the-finnish-study-might-be-true?page=36&reply=151722627

You've a better chance than most women.

Again, your point?

How do you derive the conclusion that I personally have a better chance at what exactly?

My point is I am a woman. Middle aged, without the strength or socialisation of men. This scenario where I have some ability to survive violence is a nonsensical belief and abusive, really.

@thestudio the study does include separate information for males and females. Females have more comorbidites, both sexes show evidence of mental health getting worse,

"My experiences with men are anchored in sexual abuse, physical abuse, intimidation, stalking, constant boundary transgression "

I know this was a few pages back but I've just been catching up... Onepost has managed to confirm here that he does have male characteristics, from his own definitions. He likes to transgress women's boundaries by using female single sex spaces!

Also, if you've been taking cross sex hormones for 30 years, why would your results be in menopausal range? That is surely worrying that your dose isn't high enough?

"Human life has evolved beyond gametes and reproduction "

How and when did that happen? I'm pretty sure we reproduce in the same way we always have.

but doesn't divide males into homosexual and heterosexual?
Because if the majority of adolescent males who are presenting with both dysphoria and comorbitieis are homosexual, that would tell the world quite clearly that late-transitioning heterosexual TIMs have literally nothing to say about this group and shouldn't be allowed a voice.

The only 'lived experience' that should be considered in the wider cultural/social conversation should be that of older homosexual TIMs.

I can imagine that some of you might be thinking WTF are you on about, this has nothing to do with women's rights. But I think this question could be the thing that cracks the thing open. If you can say 'almost all male pre-adolescents presenting with gender dysphoria are gay' and then also possibly 'the ones with the most comorbity are gay' then you have something which a. centres children and b. discounts late-transitioning adult TIMs as stakeholders.

And it also - and it's shit that it has come to this, but we live and campaign inside a patriarchy so it is what it is - provides an argument that de-centres women's rights. Rights which, as we know, don't play well in white liberal-progressive culture, ie the part of liberal culture most responsible for driving the niche TIM agenda into the mainstream [because it protects the rest of liberal culture, which protects the whole of global capitalism, but that's another discussion].

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting that the broader GC movement (hollow laugh) decentres women's rights. I'm saying that it could be another string to the bow, and one which might ultimately, to all our shame, prove most effective.

@onepostwonder are you attracted to men or women?

This !
If you asked a child how things had progressed post treatment, how can they judge, in the middle of it ? I was still growing at 19, I hit puberty late, ages of puberty and development vary . 18 is young to look back and assess how your feelings may have shifted, and how treatment may have affected you.

Not read this conversation but if you are running a trial you would never ask a child how things had progressed with treatment, how a treatment had affected them or how their feelings might have shifted! The whole point of blinding in trials is to remove bias and children involved in a trial will be incredibly biased about their treatment. You need standardised validated assessments that are carried out by researchers who are independent to the provision of the intervention (those providing the intervention will also be biased). Ideally who know nothing about the intervention the child has received. You then compare these to the baseline and control/alternative intervention group.

He never did tell me how he believes babies are made these days…

For what it's worth, I was also diagnosed with ADHD, depression and was demonstrably self-harming in multiple ways as a child. Transition resolved everything, I thought... but as I've aged the ADHD may be reasserting itself.

Oestrogel and Prometrium are daily use. Stop using them and their half-lives are relatively short. I use an oestrogen with far longer half-life now so that I only need to take it once every 4 weeks.

Yes.

Just as dogs are still ... dogs. Dogs that cannot speak or have opposable thumbs or drive - or do any of the things that would be broadly good for their development as a species which, had they 'evolved' in the way you say humans have, they might at least have had a good go at.

PS I would love a dog that could speak but not a driving one with opposable thumbs.

That's very much not the question I asked.

Are you attracted to biological males or biological women?

Does it matter?

Edited. Ugh.

Meant to send this to @thestudio

I am attracted to men.

The dawn of community and civilisation would be a good start? Maybe throw in the addition of culture.