Is there ANY concern among Trans Rights Activists for the health wellbeing of adolescents receiving gender affirming drugs that the findings of the Finnish study might be true

[mardirousse]

You would expect Trans Rights Activists to be concerned about the physical mental health of gender questioning children, yet I haven't seen a single TRA express the slightest concern that gender affirming care might be causing harm to young kids, who they see as transgender. Not here, not on r/transgenderuk, not on x.
They are attacking the credibility of the study, but given its size and the very shocking findings, why aren't at least some of them expressing a little concern that there might be something in it? I mean, these are vulnerable kids, and they're taking really powerful drugs with major long-term consequences, and now it looks like there's evidence that it may be doing the opposite of what it's supposed to...
How could you not be concerned, whatever your agenda? They're kids!
Aren't trans rights activists interested in the right of trans kids to be safe and healthy?
Am I missing something?

Yes but the internet and anti-capitalism and hopefully the coming fall of trump.
exciting time to be alive no?

It's irrelevant to women's health issues what happens to men. Unless you are proposing that all men take estrogen and grow boobs and are at increased risk of stroke.

Yes this often happens in medicine though that you notice a side effect and use it off label to treat other things too. Like the pill can be used to treat acne. Am I just not being clear here? Researching side effects with the biggest sample possible is a good thing?! Because someone else with reeeqrch or notice something and knowledge increases this way?
and if we don’t agree can we just agree to disagree now I’m not getting into another explaining basic things to people wit brains and internet access

See my last post. You have the internet. You have chatgtp on the App Store if you haven’t downloaded it already. You have Mumsnet to create threads.
why don’t you ask why universal side effects are useful in all medicines 🫠 because it’s basically the how it works now. Read invisible women: I’m not saying it’s a good thing but it’s a thing

How would studying given oestrogen to men and, huge doses, of testosterone to women help with establishing the side effects of giving oestrogen or low doses of testosterone to menopausal women?

My argument was if TRA campaigning means more research into the side-effects of these medicines then good

Any side-effects noted in men (TiM) are of no value to women.

In any case, HRT replaces hormones which women start to lack when the menopause starts.

In TiM, oestrogen and progestogens aren't doing the same thing at all.
Prescribing these hormones to children is not, and never should be, regarded as a legitimate off-label use.

Menopausal women gain no benefit whatsoever if men and children are prescribed these hormones.

That's exactly what I'm worried about. It's no bloody better than Trump!!!

Dear God.

No wonder we are in the mess we are in.

I've read invisible women. I don't think you employed critical thinking whilst reading it.

Every medicine you take was probably tested on men. Lots still work, that is my point

Facepalm.

Ok I want to make my definition of trans clear for this convo: either sex who identifies as not the sex they were born as. Can include men and women. So when I say trans i include both ok?

We have very different interpretations of this book. That’s ok.
of course chemo means only women get sick. Can’t have universal side effects. I’m ridiculous for even suggesting such a thing!

You are missing the point on more than the book on numerous points. Quite deliberately I suspect.

I think you are and that’s why I said let’s agree to disagree.

No. You are talking utter nonsense which is dangerous and harmful. And really bloody offensive at times.

The connection between acne and sex hormones is a direct line.

What’s the connection between a declared identity and treating that with abnormally high or low sex hormones? There is no side effect from cross sex hormones that might inadvertently treat a declared identity.

It makes zero sense to try and improve someone’s psychological wellbeing by placing their hormones into the abnormal range, a state that is well known to cause psychological ill health.

I’d say the same about your view on pronouns. Let’s agree to disagree

NHS and evidence based treatment is not 'consent' based. Nor 'access' based, tbh. It's not a question of someone reckoning they fancy a medication and then getting it. A patient must consent to the treatment prescribed by HCPs in almost all cases, yes, but that is not the starting point.

It's based (or should be, in my understanding) on treating presenting symptoms based on data, research, logic, reasoning, etc. Symptoms should be investigated and then treated.

HRT for peri and menopause symptoms has extensive research and evidence, I think there's even a Cochrane review.

Hormones for cross sex treatment, there's really next to fuck all.

Does this make sense? it's not about treating an identity, but about symptoms.

The symptoms of a menopausal woman are very very different to those of a male, of whatever age, who has an internal feeling that he wants to try and look as much like a woman as he is able to.

the effects of hormones on a female at varying ages will be absolutely worlds apart from the effects on a male, etc.

Look again loads of tras have explained why their inner identity not being aligned with their body causes them severe mental distress that needs hormone treatment. Go and argue that with them

Hehehe you assume I use the nhs 😜

No I'm not going to agree to disagree because I feel that strongly about how dangerous and harmful it is to women, gay people and transpeople themselves. Not to mention those with autism and children.

You seem to think it's just something that we can just disagree and be happy as Larry about.

No. The answer is no.

We have. You decided to stick your oar in here and assume we haven't made these points before.

You’re the one saying it’s just like other treatments. Why don’t you explain it?

The only things we disagree on is which types of medical research is useful when treating a patient.