Is there ANY concern among Trans Rights Activists for the health wellbeing of adolescents receiving gender affirming drugs that the findings of the Finnish study might be true

[mardirousse]

You would expect Trans Rights Activists to be concerned about the physical mental health of gender questioning children, yet I haven't seen a single TRA express the slightest concern that gender affirming care might be causing harm to young kids, who they see as transgender. Not here, not on r/transgenderuk, not on x.
They are attacking the credibility of the study, but given its size and the very shocking findings, why aren't at least some of them expressing a little concern that there might be something in it? I mean, these are vulnerable kids, and they're taking really powerful drugs with major long-term consequences, and now it looks like there's evidence that it may be doing the opposite of what it's supposed to...
How could you not be concerned, whatever your agenda? They're kids!
Aren't trans rights activists interested in the right of trans kids to be safe and healthy?
Am I missing something?

We can’t understand the literal framing of believing you have changed sex (or possibly you believe you were always female?) It’s not clear.

Sex realists cannot understand because changing sex is literally an impossibility under their beliefs. There will never be any framing.

The core problem which can’t be bridged is that you seem to believe that someone’s sex is defined by how they feel. Or possibly by how they identify. But it is via some interior knowledge.

I don't believe someone's sex is defined by how they feel. Or, even by how they identify. It is absolutely not interior knowledge. I have never said any of the above.

Most women here believe that a person’s sex is a physical thing, much as it is defined without much difficulty across the whole animal and plant kingdoms. We don’t see why the definition of human sex should work in a different way to all other life forms.

I believe a person's sex is a physical thing. I believe my sex is a physical thing. Sex realists deny my existence because they must fit me into 'men,'

I don’t doubt that you had/have strong feelings about not being male/really being female and it is completely understandable that you would therefore want/need to define sex as a mental rather than physical state of being to reduce your own distress. So don’t assume no-one is capable of comprehending this.

I really don't have strong feelings about this. It just is. It's hardly a mental state. I have been in my body my whole life. More than long enough to understand how I am grouped and to realise that grouping's affect on everything in my life. The fact that my body has no gametes or reproductive system hasn't impacted that grouping at all. In a similar way that clothing choice has no impact on that grouping at all.

But most people will not agree that sex is a matter of someone’s belief about themselves.

You can include me in this. No one here is clearly capable of comprehending my life.

Just finished watching 'False Prophet' on Netflix, about an offshoot group of the Mormons ( JCLDS) in which polygamous marriage ( and child sex abuse) is the norm. Even when the truth of abuse is revealed there are some who will still cling on to the faith and deny the truth.Questioning a long held faith or emotional certainty takes absolute honesty and courage. And once you start to question one certainty then the others tend to follow in rapid succession.

When a whole worldview in which you have been emotionally invested crumbles it can be very scary, but also liberating.

It affects me zilch

Yes, we know.

It affects you zilch because you're a man @onepostwonder

That could be translated as:

"I am a man and anything negative that happens to women is of no interest to me"

"I believe a person's sex is a physical thing. I believe my sex is a physical thing."

This is a glimpse into the contortions that are used by this poster to claim to be female.

This is a play on words though.

Sure, it can be said that sex is a 'physical thing' in that the sex category of a human relates to a specific body formation. One that cannot be changed. However, using a common phrase such as 'physical thing', this leads the reader to think that this body formation 'might' be what is being referred to, when it is clearly not.

Can you please inform us female people how you are a female person?

Well, if we're being pedantic........

I am 69 years old. I am a woman.
For the avoidance of doubt, I was observed to be female at birth.

For over 20 years I've been using a combination of transdermally-applied oestradiol gel and a slow-release oestrogen pessary (in my vagina, replaced every 12 weeks).

This is to mitigate the effects of the menopause on my female body and also to stop osteoporosis from causing any further damage to my bones.

I also have a mirena coil in my uterus to release progestogen. I will need all these treatments until I die.

Don't try to patronise me (or any of the other women on this thread) by telling us all about oestrogen @onepostwonder

You know nothing about it.
Nothing. Because you're not a woman.

'The fact that my body has no gametes or reproductive system hasn't impacted that grouping at all.'

Sigh.

It has, does, and always will.

'The fact I am not impacted by female puberty, periods, pregnancy, the risk of pregnancy, birth, motherhood, infertility, miscarriage, menopause, has no impact on my identity as a woman' is such a bloody nonsensical assertion.

Tits and lipstick do not make one a woman.

Fwiw a male's classification as male is a simple fact, whatever anyone on this board thinks or says. Males will require prostate exams, and their male skeleton will be identifiable as such long after any of us have finished debating.

Can you please inform us female people how you are a female person?

It's just not going to happen. Or it would have already happened.

Far easier to sneer, vilify, deride and misrepresent the posters on this board than provide a clear, comprehensible and coherent response.

And then denigrate those posters (as a homogenous group) for not understanding what one means.

I have no idea what it is like to be anyone else but me.

So on what basis are you asserting you are a flipping woman?!

”The fact that my body has no gametes or reproductive system hasn't impacted that grouping at all”

This is an undeniable aspect of categorising human bodies into sex classes. The removal of the reproductive system partially or fully doesn’t impact the sex category of a human. Because their body’s formation around the production of those gametes still remains .

A male person removing testes does not mean they are no longer a male person. They are still a male person, never a female person. So no, removing gamete production capability doesn’t impact the ‘grouping’ of male people into the male sex category of humans.

No, you are rewriting my experience to fit a gender critical narrative.

We are not rewriting anything.

We are viewing it from a point of view of women. One that you keep invalidating and saying isn't legitimate.

You said before that no one has ever said you shouldnt do anything.

Yet here we are and you are tone deaf to us saying "No as women we feel this is not only not ok but actually it's creepy and makes us very uncomfortable"

That's not rewriting to fit any narrative. That's us speaking as individuals and being honest.

I suspect you are right.

I suspect that it will be more of a case of ‘I am female because I know I am’.

have any trans rights activists actually expressed any concern in this thread yet?

I think there’s been quite a lot of concern expressed about the fact that women are refusing to accept that men are women, if that helps.

Sex realists cannot understand because changing sex is literally an impossibility under their beliefs. There will never be any framing

There can't be framing because sex can not be changed as you can't change every cell in your body.

A lack of certain hormones or a presence of certain hormones doesn't change your sex.

There is a certain kind of comfort in believing everyone else is at fault for not being "capable of comprehending".
Comfort in the framing "it's not me, it's them".
Comfort in not actually pinning down what one means, while at the same time claiming to be misunderstood.

The women on this board are great at many things, but one of the best is defining and defending the pro-woman position in absolutely clear terms.

This is not reciprocated by any of these male people who come to this board to tell us we are denying their existence.

Nope

not really.

What we have seen is the dismissal of the specific harms for female adolescents / children in these treatments in action though. How is it done, how it is defended and how it is dismissed.

I know there are new eyes reading this thread even today, they are reading and observing.

It is no fucking wonder why support for male people being treated in anyway as if they were female is declining. Each time they have an opportunity to show how they are most certainly not female, they don't hesitate to do so.

You are doing to me in this post everything that you accuse transwomen do to women

I must come back to this post by @onepostwonder and ask him a question.

Please can you tell us what you think the difference is between transwomen and women.

Thank you.

You'd think when there's a large bunch of people including scientists saying "you can't change sex" you'd pause and think "oh maybe I'm the one whose wrong".

But nope.

Total narcissism.

Or "I know I'm not male because I've never penetrated anyone." That was eyebrow raising and a doozy of a read I must say.

"By 'making' me a man, you are erasing my life and replacing it with 'generic trans woman."'

By someone pointing out that you are a man, is merely recognising your sex category. What you do as a 'man' is purely up to you. Calling you a man doesn't mean that you have to live any particular way accept with the acknowledgment that you are male.

It seems you are now trying to use some type of stereotype to defend your rejection of your sex category.

"I am not wanting to be a woman or be wanting seen as a woman. "

Great. The please stop using female language for yourself.

"I have no idea what it is like to be anyone else but me."

Sure. No one know what it is like to be anyone else. So what? Nothing a male does makes them female in any way.

oh .... yes... I remember. 😨

Heavy personal investment too.

Hey @onepostwonder you know that committee you chaired?

(supposedly as the first woman on it)

You claimed that you co-opted more women on to it. Would that be actual women, or more men like yourself, who only think they're women?