Finnish study on transition and psychiatric outcomes in sex and gender shows increased psychiatric morbidity

[anyolddinosaur]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apa.70533 Finnish study shows transition did not help psychiatric morbidity. It got worse.

Where to begin - The Finnish study is retrospective and looking at data already recorded in their systems. Those in the treatment group chose to have puberty blockers and those in the control group did not receive puberty blockers. So they can legitimately state that psychiatric illness was more common in those who took puberty blockers. They followed people over time. Therefore they can look at how changes in the mental health of those who took puberty blockers compared with adolescents who did not. Their control group was not a self selecting group.

The puberty blocker trial is not retrospective. Therefore it has to be designed to higher standards. The comparison group would not receive the same treatment as those taking puberty blockers, they would receive extras and that included extra payments for participating. So the difference would not only have been the effect of puberty blockers. It was a trial of alternative treatments in which one was known to cause harm and to cause harm to more people than it would have helped. Most children are known to desist if not given puberty blockers so more children taking puberty blockers would be harmed than would be helped. How many children is it ethical to knowingly harm because a treatment may help others when you have only anecdotal information to say that it does?

The NHS holds a lot of data on young people who have been in contact with health professionals. That data covers not only mental health contacts, as in the Finnish study, but also their contacts with other health care staff. The Tavistock staff were discouraged from keeping good records, other staff were not. There is valuable information there that those who want children to continue being harmed do not want the NHS to explore. Fortunately the Finns didnt listen to those saying retrospective studies are not perfect, they analysed their data anyway.

If anyone actually believed that puberty blockers really help children they would be encouraging all those who took them to allow their data to be included in a retrospective study because then there would be more chance of showing that people had been helped. TRAs discourage participation because they dont want the harms exposed.

Personally I'm willing to believe that some children may have been helped by puberty blockers and even that the mental benefits are capable of outweighing the physical damage - but in a very small number of children. Its not ethical to run a puberty blocker trial without finding out how small and what the characteristics of that group are. Once you've done that you might be able to make an argument for an ethical trial, until then you are knowingly harming children and even paying them to harm themselves. You dont know which ones you will harm but you know it's more than you help. The state is also in loco parentis for some of these children as children in care make up some of those involved.

Ask the Finns to try and identify if there was a subgroup whose mental health did not deteriorate and maybe you have a chance of an ethical trial but you still need to collect data on the physical damage.

It’s not ethical to give anyone puberty blockers with the express intention of stopping puberty (as opposed to delaying precocious puberty, which is damaging) before the full effects of puberty on physical, emotional and cognitive development are known, and they are not yet known, though there is evidence from animal studies that the hormonal events of puberty exert profound effects on brain maturation and behaviour.

An incomplete adult, forever stuck in quasi-childhood, is an incomplete adult however he or she identifies.

Because their ideology depends on them being right. They will avoid any inconvenient facts that prove you can’t change sex, are not ‘in the wrong body’ or actually just delusional.

it’s a sound scientific study, but it doesn’t take a scientist to work out that giving a child/young person the wrong sex hormones is going to be devastating for their health. And we’re in the early days of this fading!trend too, god knows what this cohort will be experiencing in 20/30 years.

Stella O'Malley is on fire in the article above posted by TwoLoons and also this one https://gript.ie/finnish-study-more-evidence-re-bad-outcomes-for-gender-transition/

Although acres of print have been devoted to the trans issue, most people still assume that medical transition is a well-researched and reliable treatment for vulnerable individuals with gender dysphoria.
This is a stark example of how misinformation takes hold. In truth, those who have studied the field know that, in terms of long-term outcomes, medical transition for both adults and children sits somewhere between homeopathy and lobotomy.
A new Finnish study published last Saturday caused public consternation by showing unfavourable long-term outcomes for those who medically transitioned. Among adolescents who underwent medical transition, psychiatric morbidity rose sharply. Their mental health did not improve after treatment and, in fact, worsened over time. For those familiar with the evidence, the findings came as no surprise. Although helpful, it is one more study pointing in the same direction. There are now many such studies, and none reliably demonstrate a clear long-term benefit for medical transition in either adults or children.
...

@noblegiraffe However, even with the Finnish study there are still unanswered questions, about the very specific subgroup Cass referred to for whom puberty blockers were potentially beneficial. The new draft KCSIE safeguarding guidance for schools refers to some young children 'living in stealth' approaching puberty in a fearful and anxious state, so this group is being taken seriously in safeguarding documents outside of the Cass review. I know nothing about this group of children being referred to, and I'm sure that many on here will have opinions about them, but this Finnish study doesn't help them. They're going to still end up taking puberty blockers, so if we're talking about need for a trial (outside of ethical considerations), then it would be good to have solid data to protect future cohorts of that group too.

I have to challenge this. The draft KCSIE does indeed reference "children living in stealth". These paragraphs are IMO some of the most egregious in a competitive field. They selectively quote Cass leaving out large chunks of what the Final Report says about these children (relevant sections on p159 and p164), including Cass coming dangerously close to saying "vegan cats":

"It is important to ensure that the voice of the child is heard in any decision making and that parents are not unconsciously influencing the child’s gender expression." Cass Review Final Report p164

I do not interpret the Cass Review saying that these children must be put onto puberty blockers or that this treatment would benefit them, rather that they are extremely vulnerable and they should be prioritised for clinical advice. The recommendation from this section of the Final Report is as follows (p165):

"Recommendation 4: When families/carers are making decisions about social transition of pre-pubertal children, services should ensure that they can be seen as early as possible by a clinical professional with relevant experience."

Why has this study had so little media attention?

It contradicts their narrative

Children living in stealth are most vulnerable and need support because they are the most trapped into gender ideology by everyone around them and least free to assess their own situation.

'The draft KCSIE does indeed reference "children living in stealth'

Holy fuck!!!

‘Children living in stealth’ are children who are deceiving all those around them and destroying all safeguarding for themselves and other children, and safeguarding of staff.

It's an astonishingly worrying phrase to have used.

It comes from Cass, but as I said up thread, the report is selectively quoted to imply that these children will need to be supported by school in their social transition. Exactly in fact as @noblegiraffe interpreted it. If you read the whole ST section in the final report I think you come away with a v different impression. More these children are v vulnerable and need support (as do parents/ other adults) to make a clinical decision on whether ST is the right next step

including Cass coming dangerously close to saying "vegan cats"

I post only intermittently on this board and suspect that I have missed something. What's this term "vegan cats" about?

No cat would choose to be vegan. Cats are obligate carnivores, and hunting is a natural behaviour. They do not have the capacity to understand the arguments for/against veganism. If a cat is vegan, it is imposed on them by their owner.

So the term 'vegan cat' refers to an external source applying pressure/manipulation/control/putting ideas in someone else's head. A person enforces their ideas on someone else.

In this context, the assertion is that the concept of a true 'trans child' is as likely as the concept of a true 'vegan cat' (one who has chosen this for themself without any external influence). IE, they are both false concepts.

So Cass came close to asserting what many FWR regulars believe about children being "transed" by their parents who refuse to accept that their child is a tomboy/a janegirl/autistic/gay/etc, but didn't quite manage it? Got it.

She made the point but stopped short of using the phrase “vegan cat”

Important:

The Author of the Controversial Finnish Study on Youth Gender Care Responds to Critics
A new study found a surge in psych care typically reserved for severe mental health problems following gender-transition interventions in youth—prompting sharp pushback from transgender advocates.

https://benryan.substack.com/p/the-author-of-the-controversial-finnish

I just don’t understand how anyone raising a child as the opposite sex “in stealth” cannot see that they are obviously setting that child up for a devastating time at puberty.

It is just so shortsighted- what do they think is going to happen???

Magical puberty blockers fairy?

Magical puberty blockers halt puberty whilst all your peers grown up, not just those of your own sex.