School Registration Form - pushing gender identity

[BreatheAndFocus]

DC has been accepted at a secondary school and I’m filling out the registration form (name, address, etc etc). What has pissed me off massively though is the questions about gender identity. They’re asked in such a way to imply that everyone has a gender identity, and there’s no way to say DC hasn’t, or to omit the question (because it’s online and you have to answer all questions).

The choices are: Male, Female, Self-Describe. That’s it. No way to say you don’t have one and don’t believe in this crap stuff.

Surely this isn’t neutral? It’s pushing a belief. Is this allowed?

(Note - ticking Self Describe didn’t bring up a box I could type None in, it just stayed a tick. My concern with that is that activist teachers will be rushing up to DC and asking whether they’re enby, Otherkin, etc etc.)

How insulting - and totally wrong! 🙄 My DC has learnt about trans at school as part of PSHE. Importantly, they also know older children (siblings of friends) who have had gender identities. They know what trans is, and they know what gender identity is. They know they don’t have one - because I showed them the question and asked them. Their answer was literally “I don’t have one.” When I went to tick that option on the form, it wasn’t there, so I ticked Self Describe in the hope that it would open a box for me to type in. It didn’t.

i don’t know what your problem is but you’ve crossed a line, accusing me of lying, and then accusing me of indoctrinating my child. Why don’t you FRO? All of my children are taught to think for themselves from a young age. We discuss things in an age appropriate way and they give their opinions, which we then sometimes talk further about. We talk about current affairs, particularly ‘big’ things like the war in Ukraine and the US and Iran. We also talk about ‘little’ things that are personal to them or that they’ve experienced or seen at school.

My issues are;

1. The form shouldn’t even be talking about gender identity IMO;
2. As it does, there should be an option to choose ‘None’ or similar.
3. The fact there isn’t such an option has made me/DC choose Male/Female as a ‘gender identity’ when it’s not, and has implied that everyone has a gender identity - when they don’t. With the upcoming KCSIE guidance re gender questioning children, I was expecting a more considered form.

I won’t ask your thoughts on this because I now believe you’re just here to shit-stir and distract people. None of your replies have been helpful and your personal comments about my DC and me have been disgusting.

It was an online form. We couldn’t omit questions because it wouldn’t Submit until they were all answered. Self Describe didn’t bring up a box to add anything.

To me it’s the equivalent of asking How Often Do You Pray? and then listing options such as Multiple Times a Day, Multiple Times a Week or whatever, making the assumption that everyone prays and not having an option to choose Never or Not Applicable.

The National Pupil Database appears to to collect data on the sex of pupils
only gender
https://www.find-npd-data.education.gov.uk/categories/4cb03650-0eee-49ad-a058-e12fc4105d39

Do they not have a gender (identity) at all born a boy or a girl perhaps? Or like to be considered a boy or girl or not? Seems like a sensible question, do they go swimming with the boys or the girls?

And then conflate sex and gender.

You'd have thought that by 2026 these organisations would know the difference.

I have no reason to lie, but I cant say im bothered in the slightest if you dont believe me. If it makes you happy and feel safer to think i must be one of the parents that pushed this on to them then thats absolutely fine.

I will say though knowing that there was a chance they'd grass me up to the school if I did tell them what my views were, which at the time might have led to a crazy teacher telling my employer or sending a SWAT team to my house then there was no way I was ever going to bring it up first 😂

I say at the time as id be way less worried about that now, its nowhere near as "no debate" as it was a few years ago 🙌

Seems like making a huge deal out of nothing. Just put male. It means something to some people and nothing to others.

Everyone has a gender and a sex. You don't have to buy isn't trans vs cis for this to be true. Some believe sex and gender are separate so it makes sense to ask for both.

If accuracy is the issue I would agree that "man/woman" would be suitable choices for gender and "male/female" which are sex words, would be wrong. I would add "N/A" as an answer option and just code it to consider "N/A" to mean cisgendered on the backend. Because that's what it means to have the same sex and gender. Your disbelief doesn't make that disappear.

It sounds like you're the one confused about the difference between sex and gender though. You can't nitpick an entire population of people out of existence, no matter how much you try. There still exists people who believe their sex and gender are different and those people want to be able to represent themselves the way they feel is accurate.

Certainly your permission isn't needed. So is he a boy? If so say "male" and move on with your life.

If the sex was already recorded id have left it blank

How do I know what gender i am?

I couldn’t. It was an online form and it wouldn’t Submit unless I answered every question.

You're the one who seems confused. You're suggesting gender is a legitimate category that is separate to sex and this question is relevant.

GDPR clearly states data can only be collected when relevant.

If you're arguing that perhaps you're making a fuss about nothing.

Everyone has a gender and a sex.
No.
Every mammal including humans are of either the male or female sex.

Only the humans who believe in gender pay attention to it.

It's amazing how many people seem to struggle to understand how mandatory online form fields work isn't it 🤔

No, I don’t have a gender. Gender is an external system of stereotypes largely used to oppress women. It’s not something I categorise myself by - how many stereotypes I fulfil. If others want to do that, then crack on but there should be an option to say None or N/A or to omit that question.

DC’s Sex had already been answered in the previous question. Male/Female aren’t Gender Identities. More than that, answering what gender identity you have is making you state you have something that you don’t. In the same way, asking someone how often they pray and then having no option for them to say Never or that they don’t pray/have a religion, is making that person say they pray/have a religion when they don’t. It’s not exactly hard to put a N/A option in and the fact the school didn’t do this is worrying.

Agree.

They also seem unable to grasp the difference between an immutable fact and a belief - and why the latter isn't relevant in this context.

Whoa, comrade. You’ve committed a few thoughtcrimes there.

Coding N/A as ‘cis’: Assuming someone’s gender identity. Agender erasure. Cis-normativity. Non-binary identities are valid, remember.

All boys are male? Sounds pretty transphobic.

As for ‘not a big deal’: perhaps the worst thoughtcrime of all. Trans is the biggest deal.

🤣🤣🤣

Can you ask the school whether they have a paper copy. If they don’t, explain the issue and ask them what you need to do to submit the forms as one of the questions is a nonsense unanswerable. It would annoy me too.

Or screen shot the pages and print them out, then fill in and post to the school, however I suspect they’ll fill out on your behalf and just answer ‘male’ to the GI question to match DS’s sex.

I dont think I would particular care or give it a second thought if im honest. He’s male so
put male

You might be new to the board - but it has a long history. People who didn't want to focus on issues around 'gender identity' ideology and its negative impact upon women and children requested the board be split .'Intersectionalist' and general Feminist 'chat' is now mainly on the other board.

That would be the answer to the question about sex.

It's important that they don't collect information about children that isn't needed, or asked incorrectly - otherwise it makes a mockery of the process and causes confusion. Not ideal in a sector that's responsible for the education of children.

I’ve raised questions about a similar form (not in a school context), asking for the legal basis under GDPR for storing such data as it does not relate to a protected characteristic. The form did get changed.

Well Done

If there is no lawful basis to collect the data they should not be storing it at all

I purposely haven’t mentioned my DC’s sex. A PP assumed they were male.

No, don't be silly. Being born as/recognising that you are a boy or girl is SEX, not "gender".

Going swimming is generally mixed, but if you're talking about getting changed with the boys or girls, that should absolutely only ever be based on SEX, not "gender".

Wanting to be considered a boy or girl is either recognising reality - if you ARE a boy (sex, not "gender"!), it would be normal and expected to be recognised as one - or pretending, like kids do (while still knowing what they are really), or fantasy/delusion, like the men who insist they're really "girls inside".

Don't forget the whole idea of "gender identity" was only dreamt up in obscure dodgy-male-academic circles (John Money et al) in the fifties, and only became popularised in the last 15 years or so (as a way of pretending some men could be "girls really"). Before that, NOBODY in the general public had even heard of it, let alone considered themselves to have an individual "gender" or "gender identity" (and plenty of people STILL have no idea what's meant by that, & there are still loads of countries where there's not even a concept of it). Because it's made-up nonsense.