Disappointed at Andrew Garfield remarks about JKR

[2021x]

In recent press for the Magic Faraway Tree, Andrew Garfield was trying to make the point that people who worked on HP projects should be respected for their art. He refused to use JKR name, and called her "she should remain nameless".

This for some reason has hit me a bit harder than I thought it would, and I am confused as to why. His PR is very rainbow-adjacent i.e. does Drag-race. He has always has picked "sensitive-man roles" that appeal to men rather than women. So even if he isn't actully gay-gay, he obviously much prefers the company of men- even when they are dressed as women. So there really is no reason for me to think that he actually cares about women and their safety and dignity at all.

Maybe because we are the same-ish age and similar cultural backgrounds that I thought he would have seen through all the misogynist bullshit. I think its fine to say you disagree with JKR but to demonise her to the same level as Voldemort... seems a bit.. culty?

I don't know he was talking about people who worked on Harry Potter not being dragged because they chose to work on a franchise that was written by JKR. I guess its ironic because they are getting dragged by the same bullies that go for JKR in the first place so its a wierd argument to make.

Khelif isn't a woman either. It was a disgrace that he was allowed to get into a boxing ring and batter a woman. I wonder how many male athletes will now be removed from female sports due to having to be tested for their actual sex.

I guess being called misogynistic lands as much as me being called transphobic. They just want to beat a woman to make them feel like a man.

I listened to a really interesting podcast about JKR a while back. I think it was called "the witch trials of JK Rowling".

What I got out of it was how little nuance and grey there is in all this on all "sides" and I include JKR in that.

I think it's ok for there to be nuance and some things you're ok with and others your not.

It bothers me not in the slightest for example if someone who is trans and presents as female to use a female toilet. For starters, just think of the bloody practicality of it all? If you look like a woman but happen to have male genitalia, who will know? Nobody that's who. It would be far more "weird" for someone who looks like a woman using a men's loo and also probably far more of a safety issue than the other way round. The hoo ha about it all I find kind of ridiculous. You don't think trans women have been using female toilets for years?

But when it comes to sport, yeah I do get the concerns. You have so many physical advantages being a man or many of us would not have been victimised by a man or men in our lives. Men tend to be taller, have lower body fat, more muscle, different bone structure and no periods or hormone roller coasters. Not all of that is lost even if you then take drugs to make your hormone levels closer to women. It was bonkers that was ever accepted.

Kids? Yeah I have concerns about what was going on with giving drugs to prepubescent kids. I think that's fair but it's also complicated, and not something I have direct experience with so it's fair for me to let others talk who do.

I could not give a crap if diversity targets to include women also include trans women. You can bet they're more discriminated against than most and what matters, e.g. on boards for example, to me is how many visible women there are. It matters not a jot to me if those women were born as such or not.

Changing rooms? Shared changing rooms just need to go anyway. I know it's sidestepping the issue but wtf have shared rooms nowadays for safety and privacy reasons. That is the obvious solution or if not needed, remove them. Ask people to change at home. (Even in covid, medical staff were doing this which in some ways is just so bad for hygiene but that's another thread.)

The one place I get pretty black and white about it all though is prisons and refuges. Look, any trans woman who has had an op to change their genatalia to match womens, I have no problem with being in a female prison or refuge and this is not actually a thing against trans either because this is more protection against the idiots who try to pretend to be trans. And let's face it, it's happened. I do understand trans people who choose not to go through operations which could leave them unable to feel pleasure in the future in that way, but there is a wider safety issue here and, to my mind, a square that cannot be circled. By allowing the rights of a minority, you put at risk the rights of a larger group. And sadly the case of Isla Bryson cannot now be ignored.

But the last issue makes me feel really sad. Because I'm also not blind to the fact that there is a protection issue too for trans women who are often subject to as much if not more violence as women. The sh*y thing is it's often cis men who make this all a problem for both cis and trans women.

She has DSD.

That's where the new olympic rules would disqualify her but she's not a man per se.

This is where I think the whole trans thing gets really muddy. It's often trans activists who use DSD cases to justify non DSD issues but I think the two are very different. Albeit DSD may then bring an advantage in sport which is what the IOC have decided.

She has DSD.

HE has a male DSD & is a man.

FFS

Caring that the half of humanity who is female and who has historically been marginalised, abused and exploited because of that continue to be naned and culturally and legally recognised is not "obsess[ing] about, [being] cruel to and promot[ing] weird theories about trans people".

Most people do not believe what you do.

Most people have a general goodwill towards the challenges trans people face while recognising that there are erhical and practical boundaries to trans identities, and that simply "being trans" does not mean that men (or indeed women) in the original sex-based meaning of the word get a pass on behaviour that would be rightly condemned in their "cis" (in the genderist meaning of the word) equivalents.

So if you, or Andrew Garfield, or anyone, really and genuinely believe that recognising trans people's existence requires utterly unwriting the reality of female people, then I am very sorry but there is something wrong, and frankly very sexist, in your conception of both women and of trans people.

Women matter too. Do better.

[Deleted, realised I was on the right thread after all!]

This happened to me too. I did blurt out “paedo” loudly but I think only the elderly couple in front of me would have heard. Next time I’m going to increase the volume

Respectfully I disagree.

TW who are pushing for this do not consider is that women can't tell the difference between a TW and a male predator dressed as a TW. Therefore the only way to prevent assaults on women a single sex space for females.

Violence towards females occur 1) mainly by men 2) in private spaces and 3) for sexual puposes. The violence that women experience includes but is not limited to; incident exposure, voyerism, sexual and physical intimidateion (on account of the huge strength difference), sexual assault, rape and murder.

It is very obvious when there is a male in a female only space. As a male you might not be as sensitive to the physical size difference but as a female it is unmistakeable.

Therefore even the presence of a male in a space that is designated for females can be interpreted as a threat and prevent women from using the space. I have quit the gym because a TG woman used it and it was open space. Secondly if some males start coming into female spaces then its harder to keep other males out putting women in a situation where they can't use public toilets specicially existing for them.

I agree that we need more spaces for people who don't fit into the gender-norm or are uncomfortable in using the toilet for thier sex

I think with DSD, it's comments like this which get really unhelpful. And also, as I explained, conflating it with trans is unhelpful too.

Outwardly she will look female. With female genitalia. This page might be useful to learn more.

Differences in sex development - NHS

When she started boxing she probably had no idea she had a Y chromosome. And at the time when she was able to box, she was allowed to by most governing bodies including the IOC.

She is a she. She's been called a girl since birth. At no point has she changed her identity. At some point she will have found out that due to an abnormality, she is genetically male.

To call her "he" starts getting into areas I do think are discriminatory and for nothing helpful.

Whether she or other women with DSD which confers higher testosterone levels or some benefits of that Y chromosome should compete in Olympic sport? No I don't think they should. But it doesn't mean I have to be mean about her nor say some of the things JKR has. Having a difference of opinion doesn't mean you have to be cruel about it.

The rules have been clarified as to what people mean by the terms man and woman and it’s simple genetics based on sex. Sperm or egg? Even if people are infertile or have DSD they are only investigated for a subset of problems - no female has a sperm count done.

it’s muddied because some people think that being raised or thinking of yourself as woman means you are a type of woman. Which diminishes women. Makes us a thought and behavior pattern not a biological reality.

it can be horrible for people with DSD who often don’t know anything is off until puberty

and if they were raised say as a female and then encouraged to continue with that thought pattern to further sporting advantage then it’s a type of abuse

I would finally like to point out a possible sex difference here. We don’t have any females with DSD pushing for space on male sports do we? It’s alll about the men as ever.

There is not one truthful statement in this apart from Khelif coming from a conservative country. And you have the audacity to mention homophobia when you support one of the most homophobic ideologies in existence.

i would call the person she if that wasn’t taken as acceptance of them being female

which they are not

so I will call the person male and he in this environment

I was at a theatre recently where there were mixed gender toilets. Even as a victim of rape at the hands of three different men, in no way did I feel vulnerable. It was quite funny watching men have to queue for the first time in their lives though.

Thing is, not all trans women are physically imposing in any way. Many very much are not. You will have shared a public toilet with a trans woman and not known. What is your solution then to ensuring only cis women use them?

For all the handwringing about 'nuance' and 'it's complicated', it's really not.

Under the single sex exemptions of the EQA 2010, services and spaces which are female single sex are for females.

Not men. However they identify. Not if they've had extreme cosmetic surgery. Not if they're taking wrong sex hormones. Not if they just really, really 'feel like a woman'.

There's a great quote along the lines that the problem with the SC judgement for trans activists isn't that it's complicated but that it is so clear.

Define "woman".

And if it's anything other than "adult human [biological] female":

1. explain why "women" should nevertheless be treated as interchangeable with people who are adult human biological female for the purposes of privacy, safety, identity, culture, and in the case of Kelif, hitting them really really fucking hard.
2. explain people who are adult human biological female should not be allowed to define themselves, name themselves and agitate for their own rights and identity and to tell their own stories about their own reality separate to these "women"?

I will gracefully bow out. As I can see this is just getting nasty.

That is your experience. You cannot give consent on behalf of all other women.

I am fortunate to have not been a victim of rape and I feel uncomfortable if there are males in an enclosed private space with me.

All transwomen will have a significantly higher upper body strength than all women. They are very easy to spot once you see their hands.

The only way to keep all women safe as much as possible is to keep the female toilets female only.

2 points
I was sexually assaulted, I feel vulnerable being in enclosed spaces with men.
Khelif has admitted that he has XY chromosomes.

Iman Khelif is a man

Struggling to understand how a man going through male puberty is somehow less threatening or somehow indistinguishable from a woman if he grows his hair and puts on a dress

the musco skeletal structure of men and women is completely different from shoulder angle to pelvic girdle to jaw line

why are so many women desperate to be kind and more worried about TW wellbeing than that of actual women

Sorry to hear that you've endured rape - no-one should have to go through that.

1. Women have the right to single sex spaces. Whether they've had a sexual assault (like you and me) or haven't, they have a right to say no to men in women's spaces.
2. Whether I've been in a single sex space with a man and not known because I haven't seen him, does not negate my right tona single sex space. When I have been in women's loos with men and seen them, I'm on edge. He can be 5'5" or 6'4" - it doesn't matter. It's a different vibe.
3. Good people don't transgress boundaries. It's not up to women to take on the burden of ensuring single sex spaces. Entitled men will continue to try to use them and they should face sanction.
4. Have you got help for your internalised misogyny? (Read your post through)

I am a retired NHS consultant. Don’t try & teach your Granny to suck eggs.
The DSD he has means he went through male puberty. He has a penis. At birth his genitals were ambivalent. In any developed country he would have been identified as a male immediately after birth by examination of his chromosomes. The popular name for this DSD is “ Penis at age twelve”.
He & his team have known perfectly well that he is a male all along but used the fact he had a female passport as a way to cheat his way to a gold medal.