Kellie-Jay Keen (AKA Posie Parker) removed from IWD event by police

[ImTooMessyButImTooClean]

https://x.com/theposieparker/status/2029940578528473283?s=46&t=p6GESSn09HWHVXYgTLIbJg

“My removal from the international women’s day event by the police.

I had been asking women’s organisations whether their services were for women only. This caused alarm and distress and the venue, claimed to be privately owned when it’s owned by the council, asked me to leave for asking questions.

I have footage of every interaction that I will upload later so you can see what those questions were and you can judge for yourself.”

I think we've all become desensitised over the years to TRAs calling us all far right, and indeed tribal lefties here on FWR calling everyone who isn't a tribal lefty far right. The problem is not just that it's untrue and annoying.

I've been on another thread today providing evidence of how Rupert Lowe's organisation is linked to extreme-right and white nationalist circles, and some posters have reflexively responded with "we don't care, that's just purity spiralling, that's just smears, Rupert is saying things we like on trans and that's good enough for us to applaud him".

This is the result of years of crying wolf. And the same people are still crying wolf. And when the wolf arrives they'll still be wanging on about KJK.

One final point.
There was something upthread, some sort of thought experiment, about someone being thrown out for calling someone morbidly obese, with a parallel being made between this and whatever KJK said or did before she was thrown out of the IWD event.

It's a ridiculous comparison. Pointing out that someone is morbidly obese is, on the whole, needlessly rude - though it might be relevant at, say, a riding stables when there is no horse of the appropriate size and type to carry 20st of human (though most riding school instructors are more tactful).

Pointing out that someone is a bloke, or objecting to the presence of blokes, in organisations dedicated (apparently) to women is entirely justifiable, because the maleness of those individuals means that the aims of the organisations have changed, and they are no longer exclusively female.

I am, of course, using 'women' and 'female' in the original sense of 'the large gamete people', not the 'whoever says they are' version.

I find the whole thing annoyingly tribal - I don't need or want heroes to look up to. I can and do form my own opinions without having to adopt wholesale those of anyone else. When someone has an interesting point of view I'm capable of hearing it and examining it for what it is.

I keep meaning to leave this thread...

100% agree with you, @SionnachRuadh. I've been saying the same for years. Words have meanings, and if you misuse them, the meaning is, eventually, blunted or lost.

Coldplay? Now that was cruel.

That's the one. I don't think it is restrained to pick on and film a random person who has not done anything wrong. I think KJK was looking for an argument from my friend to prove that transwomen are dangerous and actually found out how clearly vulnerable some (probably many) transpeople are. I read or saw something recently that had some statistics on the amount of transpeople that have mental illness or neurodiversity and it's a lot. Unless a transperson was posing an actual threat to me or another woman, I would probably assume that they're autistic and vulnerable because I've met a bunch of autistic people that are also trans.

She was absolutely patient and kind to this person. Where was the verbal abuse?

Oh well that’s fine then. Let’s let those men into women’s spaces. And then the other vulnerable men too to be fair no? The short ones, young ones, old ones, sick ones…. Maybe the unhappy ones as it would be unfair to keep them out….

Get a grip. Your friend might be lovely but I don’t want any men in women’s single sex spaces and we are all within our rights (legal and human) to insist

ETA Ive enough shit to deal with with the “vulnerable”-yet still somehow still aggressive and horribly argumentative to the point of abusive in my own life. It goes with the territory and is completely unrelated to trans identities. I have no interest in letting these chaps who don’t understand when they’re being ghastly into women’s spaces because they’re autistic

because I've met a bunch of autistic people that are also trans.

Perhaps it's time you started joining the dot's, there's a reason why so many autistic people have been sucked into this cult.

Your post will likely be deleted for the c word but it has been seen

Didn’t he stop her to talk to her?

You have now confirmed that this is your friend. However, that discussion did match your description of it at all.

You seem to have heard a completely different discussion or your friend reported it to you with a very different interpretation of what was said.

She did not say at all that God and his mother hated him, quite the opposite.

@Waheymum just to be clear now you have confirmed that the footage as at above provided by @Helleofabore is your friend. Are you asking that we accept his delusions that he is a woman?

it is pretty obvious he has serious problems, which affirming he is a woman is a harmful approach, by any standards.

Is your friend a trans woman? Does he use women’s facilities, e.g. changing rooms, loos?

Except you lied about your friend's experience in order to take a cheap shot at KJK, who actually showed more respect to your friend than you have done. You used him; that's not friendship.

So what are people supposed to say? I've met transwomen that are estranged from their families because the family didn't affirm their desired gender. I've asked transpeople how they know they're trans and have either been told I can't possibly understand so they're not going to try to explain, or that they know in their hearts.

I think the problem is that partly because MNHQ without consulting us renamed the thread that is actually and always was Feminism and Women's Rights - ie FWR has attracted those who have heard or participated in arguements about women's sex based rights but purely on a left right basis.

And it also true that because it is maily right wing outlets that bother with any sort of pro gender critical reports, that there are some who think this must be a haven for those who are right wing.

And equally attracts all of those who being spear carriers for leftie men think they will earn brownie points by coming on here to lecture us about not having the right politics. By that they mean male left.

So all in all while left and right are scoring points of each other what gets squeezed out time and again is discussion based on if not identical but at least within common idenitification of feminism.

Certainly compared to when I first started reading FWR which I did for quite a while before joining in, there seemed to be much more emphasis on looking at eevents through a feminism prism.

But in fact that was just before MNHQ on the basis of absolutely nothing hyphened off feminism into being "chat" and women's rights being sex and gender.

Not that anyone paid any attention except the nice girls who liked to chat. And could "legitimately" ignore trans as being a feminist issue.

But if I remember quite a few long time posters gave up and left FWR. And I suppose their background had helped make feminism the core.

So on one level not surprised that some dont experience this as being overtly "feminist" but a single issue discussion informed by pale male party politics.

Oh come on he is a rather tall overweight man who has clearly got mental health problems. It is just down right cruel to “affirm” his delusions, that he is somehow a woman.

And that is because he is not a woman and all the world can see it and will never accept his silly assertions.

All he will ever experience is social isolation and the discomfort that will surround him how does that help this poor lump of a man?

I saw this footage when it was released, and i felt terribly sad for him. And KJK was not cruel at all.

what are you possibly supposed to say - no you are not a woman.

HTH

For a start, you shouldn’t make false representations as to what KJK said to your friend.

And your friend should not be using any female single sex provisions. It is not hateful to point that out directly to him.

He was standing in front of the courthouse where the Darlington nurses case was being heard. A highly relevant case for male access to female single sex provisions.

Tbf, though, no matter what word you use to describe the animal commonly known as a dog it isn't going to start meowing. It will still be the same animal as it is now and as it was before the word "dog" existed.

Yes but is it a male or female dog?

I've just watched that KJK footage with the very tall man who says he's a woman. And read the poster who claims he's a friend (I think that's bollocks, they're just appropriating the event).

The footage is absolutely rage inducing.

The man listed, by rote, all the reasons why the Supreme Court judgement was 'wrong'. He's been bloody brainwashed by nasty, TRAs online. And he also thinks he's in danger in the men's.

And KJK is absolutely right when she says he would be a very frightening presence in a woman's toilet. He feels entitled (thanks again TRAs), and is physically intimidating.

And once again, for the billionth time, I really am fucking flabbergasted how we ever got to this. Telling a massive bloke he's not allowed in the ladies. And the madness is that it's considered controversial.

Well, I just got a post deleted and a warning for 'promoting hate' on Reddit for what I'd have said was a pretty diplomatic reply to a post about Labour's 'transphobic' policies. First time I've ever had a warning in years of being on there.

I just said that I think Self ID was the straw that broke the camel's back as it would have effectively removed the ability for women to use single sex spaces to escape from male harassment. Gave the example that I'd been followed by weirdos while out shopping before and popped into the ladies to escape them whilst I called my mates who were on a different floor.

I said it's a terrifying thought that a stalker could surprise me in a state of undress in the ladies changing room and proceed to get naked whilst still being entirely within the bounds of the law.

This wasn't in a trans subreddit either. It was the LabourUK one, so you'd expect posters to be from here where gender critical beliefs are protected.

I wonder how that works moderation wise? With it being a US company I wonder if they can enforce their own policies as a private service provider or whether they still need to respect protected beliefs etc.