Baby born from dead donor womb transplant in UK first

[IwantToRetire]

Commisseration and support for the family of the woman who died, and happy for the new mother.

But feel sort of uneasy about this.

https://news.sky.com/story/simply-a-miracle-baby-boy-born-from-dead-donor-womb-transplant-in-uk-first-13511093

Yes, ideas about bodies shift and have shifted and will continue to do so. But 'progess' is really just 'change', not automatically a Good Thing. Some see surrogacy as a positive for people who want a baby, others see it as baby trafficking.

Yes but the arguments against surrogacy make sense whether you agree with them or not - there is the birth mother’s feelings, rights and risk to her life to be taken into consideration. With this there is, sadly, no person anymore. There is no life to be affected. I do think there should be an option to consent to this in the event that you die but if this was made possible I literally do not see the issue other than, it’s creepy (of course it’s a little creepy- it’s someone else’s organ inside your body, there’s no getting away from that), and its very new. And people are terrified of anything new. I think this is where all the discomfort is coming from

Whilst the law has changed, the practical elements haven't changed that much.

It is still a very difficult conversation to have with families and loved ones and many/most still react very emotionally to what is being asked/proposed.

There are still many people who refuse to have the conversation, give consent or for whom their religious or cultural beliefs mean that this is not possible.

We are a very long way from everyone being absolutely on board with organ donation. Blood donation even (very clearly demonstrated by supply issues).

The opt out law just enables conversations to start from that point of view, "your relative had not opted out, had they ever discussed their thoughts on donation?" It does not in anyway mean that organ donation is a given at all.

For those who feel all organs are equal, or that issues around genitalia are just because this is new, I would say read more about the complex psychological issues recipients have with other organs too. Also, would you always have zero concerns - face transplants? Hand transplants? Nothing makes you pause?

It does not actually help the organ donation cause to insist that there are no reasons to feel reticent or conflicted, or to make out that anyone who voices unease is just a stick in the mud.

Luckily, on the ground the hcps working in these scenarios have a greater understanding of the complexities and appreciate that for families to even discuss the possibility is a great act of generosity and bravery and not to be taken as a given at all.

Describing a women's body part as 'housing' is precisely why so many feel uneasy about this. As others have said, this could lead to living women being pressured - by emotional blackmail or financial pressures - to 'donate' their wombs. It could lead to an industry like surrogacy where poor women are exploited by rich women. While I'm on the fence about this particular situation I don't think anyone should be on here calling other people ridiculous for being uneasy about this. There's an interesting philosophical and moral discussion to be had, for sure.

No.
A man doesn't have the correct vascular system for a womb to be connected to, nor does he have an endocrine system that can sustain pregnancy nor can that be done with cross sex hormones. He doesn't have the space for a womb as his bladder, bowels and intestine are larger than women's, nor does he have the correct shape pelvis to allow room for a baby to grow.
Then theres the issue with toxicity to the man, men often have fatal reactions to blood from pregnant women if given in transfusion as such it must be assumed that being pregnant would most likely be fatal to a male.
So basically its never going to be possible for a man to have a successful womb transplant and pregnancy no matter what dodgy Dr's and delusional men claim

'My mother gives me whatever I demand, heck she would harvest her own organs if possible for me so other women should get on board and do the same.

For someone that bases their whole identity around the way they feel, you are very dismissive of the feelings of others, even the children you would like to parent.

No it wont and I seriously doubt that anyone would have honestly offered you a man their womb if it was a realistic possibility.
Oh and female can loan anyone their womb. Its not like borrowing a book or car you know

'I know nothing about reproduction and believe that the only part of a woman's body that is related to pregnancy is her womb'.

No one is asking you to "fling your genitalia into the world" 😂

No one is demanding that you consent to donation. The whole point of these debates is whether people who don't want to do it should be allowed to stop people who do want to do it and if they are trying to stop them for valid ethical reasons or just because they personally think it is disgusting.

No one is going to force a Jehovah's witness to donate blood. The world would rightly be in uproar if they tried to stop everyone else donating and receiving blood though. That's the difference.

I wonder whether that poster is a former student who still lives at home, stays in the bedroom in front of computer, phone and TV screens, whose many books and journals line the bookshelves, arranged in alphabetical order. Perhaps there are old pizza boxes waiting to be taken out. There may also be a cat.

Ffs cannot loan her womb not can bloody auto correct

If you read the quote history back you will see that a poster asked what objections anyone could have - so I outlined some.

They also said there are not ethical issues to tangle with (vs surrogacy) - I disagree and gave examples.

Replies then came which dismissed those examples and concerns and described women who are uneasy about this as ridiculous and behind the times.

I didn't think just telling people they're wrong to raise the way they feel and the concerns they have works. A la trans issues etc.

This!

The ignorance and arrogance of men about women's bodies and our physiology is breath-taking. Women's bodies are organised around our role as conceivers and carriers of a human foetus; it determines our hormones & life cycle as well as our skeletons & arrangement of our internal organs.

Men's bodies are not.

Even blood donation needs to be done within an ethical regulatory framework, so it's not just a question of individual choice.

I have read some bizarre stuff on this site but this just takes the biscuit
Why would the child have any emotional attachment to the womb donor? I consider it to be comparable to IVF. The donated womb is just an organ - admittedly an amazing one used to grow a much wanted baby.
I don't think your situation is in any way the same.

Surrogacy Concern have a twitter thread. They are opposed to womb transplants but focus on live transplants (Link to Nitter) https://nitter.net/SurrogConcern/status/2026538296600383687#m

Feelings do not make something a disability.

Sonia Sodha on her Substack focus' on the health risks of major surgery to the mother and to a living womb donor.https://soniasodha.substack.com/p/womb-transplants-medical-miracle?r=1iamh&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true

Well thats debatable Anxiety is effectively feelings but it can be crippling for those who suffer.

Ok. I’ll rephrase it. It’s the organ for a baby to grow in. But I still don’t see what the issue is. If a childless woman wants my womb when I die, she can have it. Same way that she can have my heart if she needs it too. My heart would give her life and my womb would enable her to give life. All sounds good to me. You have to remember that there were plenty of people who were against test tube babies when that was first launched and now it’s common practice. I’m sure womb transplants will be the same.

Wonder if they'll invent brain transplants next. I mean it's only an organ afterall.

Seeing the way other reproductive donations by women are monetised worldwide, and how women are pressured into them, the ethics worry me.

Me too. And not only reproductive donations — I’ve read of Indian villages where women are pretty much expected to sell a kidney.

I am suspicious of any so-called ‘advance’ that increases the ability to exploit women.

Its an organ but the spinal cord is really part of the brain along with the optic nerves.
I don't think brain transplant is remotely feasible

However we can fantasise about getting the brain of a genius,
I mean imagine getting the brain of say a surgeon, would it remember how to do surgery, would the certificates it earned go with it?

Would your accent stay the same ?

Actually that would be more like the brain getting a whole new body than the body getting a new brain

Makes me think Dogman!!

Anxiety disorder manifests in physical symptoms like heart arithmia, shortness of breath, tremors, headache, blurred vision, fainting and affects the digestive system. It's physical, not just feelings.

Again not comparable to having a infertile womb, my inability to carry children is not a disability, it does not disable us in any way.
Being sad about it is not a disability.