Webberly reports Cass to the GMC - get popcorn

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.helenwebberley.com/p/i-have-referred-dr-hilary-cass-to

If you are actually a parent with a teen girl and have not worked out that your job is to judge and guide the girl to the best possible outcome that is rather sad as it pushed adult respondibility on to a child.

If you are doing that it is not suprising that you are undereducated with no understanding of why forced menopause as induced by testosterone overdosing is not a good idea for a teen/twenty something girl.

As for research which part of fact that the medical profession in the UK have no clinical research to support medicating adults is not a concern?

The UK has had years and years of adults involved in the NHS gender clinics and nobody has done any long term studies. What other medical field would that happen in? No doctors writing papers or using long term research to obtain promotions.

That lack of data is ignored when it is proposed to do studies on children with complex MH issues.

In the end, through conversation and understanding she came to the decision that they were more gender fluid than one or the other.

Can you explain what you understand by the term 'gender fluid'?

I'm not asking for a definition, I'm asking what you, personally, understand this term to mean, and what you think it means for your daughter.

I confess I didn't think you'd be back, Tired - that the question 'how do you define gender?', which you never answered, was too difficult for you.

Thank you for continuing to engage, but if we can't know what you mean by 'gender' as in 'gender dysphoria' or 'gender fluid', it's difficult to have a useful discussion.

But to respond to what you have written, without definitions unfortunately:

I believe we need to listen to young people and support them,
100% agree!
but in a way that is neither suggesting they should transition nor that they shouldn't.
By 'transition' do you mean live as a transwoman/transman?
There I disagree 100% - given that it is impossible for a man to become a woman, or a woman to become a man, for for a girl to grow up to be a man, or for a boy to grow up to be a woman, it is unfair to offer 'transitioning' to children as a valid possibility.
Children deserve the truth: the sex you were born is unchangeable and if you are born male, you'll be male till the day you die, ditto if you are a girl, you'll remain female.
It's irresponsible and ultimately cruel to suggest to children that they will eve be anything other than the sex they were born into.

We need to listen to young people,
100% agree

have conversations with them
100% agree

and understand their individual situations without judgement.
100% we mustn't judge the child, but judging facts and situations and courses of action is what grown-ups do, it is a good thing when supporting young people to become strong, confident, sensible adults . If we don't model judgement to children, they'll never learn to make sensible, wise, balanced judgements themselves.

Sensible, wise, balanced judgements are based on fact not fiction, and children deserve the facts about their biological sex and all the loving support in the world to help them understand that you can't transition out of the sex you were born into.

But that doesn't mean that you can't be whatever kind of man you want to be, whatever kind of woman, gender is just something society tries to tie you down with, but a confident well-informed child won't waste energy on trying to elude their biological sex by pursuing the illusion of 'transitioning'.

I think it's very damaging to invite children to consider whether they feel like a girl or a boy. What are they actually going to base that on? They have no idea what it feels like to be the sex they aren't. They can only possibly conceive it in terms of which stereotypes they feel more comfortable with. So it's inviting them to lean into stereotypes rather than what we should be doing, encouraging them to ignore stereotypes and just follow their own individual interests without needing to label them as either feminine or masculine.

TiredOf's daughter has come to the conclusion any logical teen ought to faced with this ideology. Nobody is 100% either sort of stereotypes, we're all a mix, and we should all feel free to be masculine (for want of a better descriptor) one moment and feminine the next. Let's just label the entire world as gender fluid and get on with sorting things by sex where they need to be sorted at all.

A few years ago my daughter was asked whether she might be a boy by a camhs mental health worker. She's autistic and gender non conforming, he based it purely on her stereotypical presentation.

Luckily she said she was a girl. I say 'luckily' but what I really mean is that I told her that is no wrong way to be a girl and that there was nothing wrong with wearing clothes that are in the boys section of a shop or wearing her hair short or not wearing make up when this question had arisen before.

Post puberty she actually is a lot more into stereotypically girly things.

There are a shocking number of autistic girls in our area who identify as boys or non binary.

The reason for this is evident.

Webberly is a disgrace and adults who have care responsibility for children should be ashamed of themselves for suggesting that gender non conforming kids might not be the sex they were born.

Tired, have you read the Cass report, or reviews/other people's opinions on it?

Marie,
The UK only recognises two 'genders' legally, male and female. When you register with a GP, you tick a box that is 'male' or 'female', when you fill in your tax returns or update pensions, you're either 'male' or 'female' and when you get your passport, you're either 'male' or 'female'.

Your comment:
By 'transition' do you mean live as a transwoman/transman?
There I disagree 100% - given that it is impossible for a man to become a woman, or a woman to become a man, for for a girl to grow up to be a man, or for a boy to grow up to be a woman, it is unfair to offer 'transitioning' to children as a valid possibility.
Children deserve the truth: the sex you were born is unchangeable and if you are born male, you'll be male till the day you die, ditto if you are a girl, you'll remain female.
It's irresponsible and ultimately cruel to suggest to children that they will eve be anything other than the sex they were born into.

The following statement comes directly from the Equality Act 2010:
"A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex."
So, in your statement above, even the EA2010 says that someone potentially undergoes a process for the purpose of reassigning their sex.

Having open and frank discussions with young people is the right thing to do, but to state that it is impossible is incorrect.

Gender fluid is someone who doesn't live or identify as one gender or the other, but is both, neither and a mix.

Someone who likes a mix of stereotypes or none or all.

Everyone, then.

You got one thing correct in your reply and that it is our job as parents to guide, but we are not to judge. I also never said that was the end of our conversations or of my support and guidance.
Regarding the lack of data, you state, that would be due to the fact that the Cass report never contacted and services that support trans people or trans people who've lived wonderfully fulfilling lives with or without medication or surgery.

What exactly is it they're not doing that makes neither one or the other?

As far as I can tell, its something to do with haircuts.

Yes you judge
Your job is to take the available data your child has been given. You should then do a independent fact check. Then look at other available data. Then your job is to make an informed decision on what the best options will be for your child.

Only when you are informed can you actually provide guidance and help your child work through all the various options. That also involves if needed "putting your finger on the scales" to push for the best long term outcome as you should be able to be more rational and less emotion led when looking at all the outcomes and will likely have wider understanding life in general than a sheltered teen.

If you have a girl you are the adult parent and you need to be willing to be the adult.

Regarding the lack of data, you state, that would be due to the fact that the Cass report never contacted and services that support trans people or trans people who've lived wonderfully fulfilling lives with or without medication or surgery.

Nothing to do with Cass and I did not state that ^

The NHS provided a service and has done for years. That involves a cross section of professions. The professions have a number of individuals who are in a niche area of medicine.

If the TiM or TiF is living wonderful life without ever needing medical (including MH support) the NHS service and the drug sellers will have had no contact with that person.

In the case where the NHS has been involved why can the NHS and its staff not produce reports which examine long term impact and conclude there is a long term benefit?

If Webberlely* *has the data or reports why was the drug selling business moved off shore outside the UKs various Regulation system?

If the "wonderfully fulfilling lives with or without medication or surgery" were wonderful and were fulfilling why would this not have be used as a sales pitch for upselling the the various "services" on offer?

Presumably all the nonsense about gender fluid etc is to persuade people to ignore the well researched and evidenced points from Hilary Cass about how children are impacted by this dangerous ideology:

There are charlatan medics involved in targeting children.
That most children grow out of this if left alone.
That social media is responsible for misleading children (it allows bad faith adults to influence children)
That social transitioning can lock children into an unnatural trajectory
That the experimental surgery performed on young people is brutal.

An absolutely damning assessment of how children and young people have been harmed and abused by an activist led system.

'it is our job as parents to guide, but we are not to judge.'

How does one guide without exercising judgement? Is absolutely everything a child.does to be supported?

The UK only recognises two sex.
[(Edit) remove random text]

The law allows a legal fiction to be created via the GRA and other official documents

A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex."

Your quote of the EA10 is about a "provable" process which is changing attributes of sex not changing sex.

That is a very important distinction and a clear legal difference as no individual would be able to claim a PC of GR if the end result was that the individual had to prove they became one of the other sex.

It is why the Courts ruled that the benchmark test was the treatment of individuals who were of the same sex.

The Cass Review analysed the patient records of 3,306 people. It attempted to analyse the records of 9,000 more and the law was changed to allow them to do this. The trans clinics refused to give them access to the data. If these patients really were living happy and fulfilled lives I would expect these clinics to open their doors wide.

And FYI this type of research is carried out only by accredited researchers and under conditions of strict patient confidentiality.

By any measure this is a decent sized study which enables researchers to draw appropriate conclusions from the data. Evidence of both omission and commission suggests there are serious problems with the medical treatments offered to trans people.

Can we just ignore the Interruptatron? And get back to talking about the subject of this thread?

Please?

I constantly find myself wondering this when confronted with people who insist the children are 'young people' and should make their own decisions.

What, even when they fly in the face of evidence and reason and could lead to lasting harm?

They're is a reason we don't let them have ice cream for dinner even if they really really want it. The same principle can be applied to other decisions.

The UK recognises two SEXES, not genders.

Might be worth complaining & appending Prof Louis Appleby's statement re the absence of any increase in suicides attributable to the closure of the Tavistock GIDS, ACLU lawyer Chase Strangio's admission to the Supreme Court in Skrmetti that medicalisation doesn't treat suicidality, & the recent admission by the WPATH President-Elect, Lauren Schechter to the same effect.
Always good to have undeniable evidence lodged on their servers that they were told they were wrong & shown why.

They are in essence suicide-baiting, telling children & young people experiencing distress related to their sexed bodies/ gender stereotypes that their condition necessarily entails a risk of suicide & that the risk is amplified if they are not hustled onto a medical pathway.

It's completely unethical, odious, & were it not so vile, it would be laughable in its stupidity.

Hannah Barnes, who uncovered the Tavistock scandal said that if it came to light that cancer patients were being treated as badly as trans identified patients (in terms of no evidence base, low efficacy and actual harm from treatment) people would be up in arms.

But for some reason, we're not supposed to mention or discuss the elephant in the room re trans 'healthcare'. Trans identified people deserve the same high standards of evidence based care.