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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GLP v EHRC judgement is coming tomorrow

1000 replies

DownhillTeaTray · 12/02/2026 14:44

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

Jolyon Maugham KC (@goodlawproject.org)

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

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51
Signalbox · 13/02/2026 18:51

Another2Cats · 13/02/2026 14:07

"So is the judgement saying there could be a case for trans women to use women's facilities without it necessarily discriminating against other men?"

Yes, as long as the men's toilets were no less favourable than the women's then the judge said that a "strong argument" could be made that allowing trans-identifying men to use the women's toilet does not necessarily constitute direct discrimination for other men.
.

"But unless there were also single sex women's facilities this would be indirect discrimination against women?"

Again, yes it may be indirect discrimination. Also, if this was a workplace then there would still be a requirement to have single-sex toilets in addition.

Yes, as long as the men's toilets were no less favourable than the women's then the judge said that a "strong argument" could be made that allowing trans-identifying men to use the women's toilet does not necessarily constitute direct discrimination for other men.

Ha ha, from what I’ve heard the men’s toilets are generally less favourable than the women’s toilets. Often only one cubicle, smellier, dirtier, less space for powdering one’s nose. At the very least men would need to be able to have a look-see to establish that their loos were of a similar standard to the ladies. I’m not sure the judge has really thought it through.

Rainingrain · 13/02/2026 18:54

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/02/2026 18:26

The booklet I mentioned before was for train stations. It’s actually very detailed and shows the consideration that goes into design. It separates toilets into male and female, detailing why the differences are there in numbers too (females have more toilets and hand basins).

In contrast, in train carriages, the toilet is unisex and private. There’s a lot of misuse and unfortunately sexual assaults which shocked me as you imagine train carriages to be very public and somehow that would be a protective factor.

Trains are weird spaces though - full of strangers who get off at stops and disappear. It shouldn’t really be a surprise train toilets are spaces for assaults when you consider the assaults that take place in the carriages. Also they are generally in the noisy unpopulated space between carriages so actually fairly private. But aside from risks, they are in my experience very grotty.

SerendipityJane · 13/02/2026 18:57

PronounssheRa · 13/02/2026 18:41

Jolyon 2019 the Government should respect the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court says its the law, it's the law.

Jolyon 2026 the Government should 'correct' the Supreme Court.

Wild times

Not that sort of law ...

Signalbox · 13/02/2026 19:06

DabOfPistachio · 13/02/2026 17:41

I think everyone is tying themselves in knots with this. Mostly because GLP and TRAs are busy muddying everything to try make it look more complicated.
Basically, the judge dismissed all three grounds of GLP's challenge.
The judgment confirms that under both the EA and under Workplace Regulations, "man" and "woman" mean biological man and biological woman, and that single-sex facilities cease to be single-sex if trans people of the opposite biological sex are permitted to use them.
The judgement notes that the law provides a "floor not a ceiling". This means that genuine single sex provision in the workplace is the minimum requirement, but there's nothing stopping service providers from providing additional mixed-sex facilities (third space or a gender neutral option).
For service providers, they aren't required to provide single-sex facilities at all (unlike workplaces where it's compulsory), but if they choose to and say it's for "women" then it has to be single sex and the same rules apply.
Same with workplaces, they can say they are providing "womens" and "mens" and those have to be single sex but there's nothing stopping them adding additional mixed provision.
Regards paragraph 61, there was an argument made before the court that if a space includes biological females and biological men identifying as female, then excluding non-trans biological men could be discriminatory.
The judge essentially responded with "if a single sex facility includes trans women, it could be less favourable treatment to exclude other men as it is now a mixed-sex space." It's a hypothetical observation about one argument, not a green light for anything.
GLP took this all and ran away with it. Because the law doesn't prohibit additional mixed provision (third spaces), they claim this means that mixed spaces can be called women's spaces.
It's a reach so far that they've probably sprained something.

Thanks for explaining.

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/02/2026 19:07

Rainingrain · 13/02/2026 18:54

Trains are weird spaces though - full of strangers who get off at stops and disappear. It shouldn’t really be a surprise train toilets are spaces for assaults when you consider the assaults that take place in the carriages. Also they are generally in the noisy unpopulated space between carriages so actually fairly private. But aside from risks, they are in my experience very grotty.

My research has led to some pretty disturbing stuff to be honest. I don’t detail it here for obvious reasons.

Yes unisex toilets are grottier and contain more pathogens. Scientifically proven.

Catiette · 13/02/2026 19:07

Catiette · 13/02/2026 18:50

Thanks to all for the ongoing commentary.

Meanwhile, I've spent a busy afternoon designing the proposed educational materials to help with all the confusion. I'm pleased to announce that they're at last ready for publication, and will shortly be available at all good retailers.

The book is, inevitably, currently under embargo (AKA a sensitive image 🙄), but a sneak preview should appear here shortly.

Btw, when it does, you'll see - if you look (too!) closely at the logo - that despite my best efforts, I couldn't get Ladybird to publish it 😔. I seem to have ended up with the second-rate pretender house, Ladyguin (also affectionately known as Pengbird). Oh, well.

Btw, you'll see there appears to be a launch party taking place in the inclusive toilet, 9pm this evening - BYOB, and don't be late - spaces are filling up fast...

(That was all Ladyguin's doing, not mine 😂!)

nicepotoftea · 13/02/2026 19:07

The Times seem to have got this wrong

www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/trans-women-toilets-ban-judge-tz8lbn5zh

(sorry couldn't find archive - I hope the share works)

They say:

"Employers can legally ban transgender women from using female lavatories as long as a suitable alternative is provided, a High Court judge ruled on Friday."

But this makes it sound as though single sex toilets are ONLY lawful where there is some kind of 'suitable alternative'.

Whether or not the men's toilet or a unisex toilet is a suitable alternative, the judgement agreed that a woman's toilet in a work place is necessarily single sex provision for women.

Signalbox · 13/02/2026 19:09

I do think judges need to be more aware that any ambiguity will be spun to say the complete opposite.

dreichluver · 13/02/2026 19:10

EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 14:34

Yep agree entirely. Women didn’t sell this lie. Leave us out of it thanks.

Men can sort it out and leave women and children alone at this point.

Women didn’t sell this lie.

Ruth Hunt. Theresa May. Maria Miller. Nicola Sturgeon. Harriet Harman. Angela Rayner.

And a smorgasbord of other political and academic handmaidens.

Unfortunately women don't come out of this mess with completely clean hands.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 13/02/2026 19:11

I still can't see how a labelled facility could be mixed sex while excluding some men.

The SCJ is clear that if you invoke a single sex space you are using legal discrimination, which requires a protected characteristic, and that women and some men end it qualifying as a single sex space, so ergo its an open mixed space.

And that aside: - what IS a transwoman for the sake of which men get in and which have to stay out?

Who decides? By what criteria? Practically this would have to be self identity. There is no other way to do it. Essentially 'women and men who want to'.

And as Datun says, the labelling has to be fair and inclusive to women needing a single sex space too . You can't call it women when it's actually women and which ever men want to be in there.

nicepotoftea · 13/02/2026 19:14

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 13/02/2026 19:11

I still can't see how a labelled facility could be mixed sex while excluding some men.

The SCJ is clear that if you invoke a single sex space you are using legal discrimination, which requires a protected characteristic, and that women and some men end it qualifying as a single sex space, so ergo its an open mixed space.

And that aside: - what IS a transwoman for the sake of which men get in and which have to stay out?

Who decides? By what criteria? Practically this would have to be self identity. There is no other way to do it. Essentially 'women and men who want to'.

And as Datun says, the labelling has to be fair and inclusive to women needing a single sex space too . You can't call it women when it's actually women and which ever men want to be in there.

I still can't see how a labelled facility could be mixed sex while excluding some men

I think the idea is that the meaning of 'woman' could be ambiguous and might refer to gender not sex.

In practice, that sounds like rather dodgy advice to give to a service provider.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 13/02/2026 19:16

I'd think it leaves them wide open to legal issues, yes.

Have a facility labelled 'single sex women' and another longside labelled 'women and .....' and that's fine, no issues there, except really the second one is 'mixed sex' and there would have to be some way of expressing it was men who chose that space and it was not general mixed sex without a) misleading women or b) accidentally handing men a case to sue for discrimination.

Signalbox · 13/02/2026 19:20

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 13/02/2026 19:11

I still can't see how a labelled facility could be mixed sex while excluding some men.

The SCJ is clear that if you invoke a single sex space you are using legal discrimination, which requires a protected characteristic, and that women and some men end it qualifying as a single sex space, so ergo its an open mixed space.

And that aside: - what IS a transwoman for the sake of which men get in and which have to stay out?

Who decides? By what criteria? Practically this would have to be self identity. There is no other way to do it. Essentially 'women and men who want to'.

And as Datun says, the labelling has to be fair and inclusive to women needing a single sex space too . You can't call it women when it's actually women and which ever men want to be in there.

I still can't see how a labelled facility could be mixed sex while excluding some men.

I think this must be wrong. There is no mechanism in law to provide a mixed sex facility that excludes only certain men. Other groups of men (gay men or Dad’s with daughters or boys) might also feel that they should have access for various reasons and that the men’s toilets was less favourable than the mixed sex facility. If the GLP appeal perhaps this para 61 will be challenged.

nicepotoftea · 13/02/2026 19:20

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 13/02/2026 19:16

I'd think it leaves them wide open to legal issues, yes.

Have a facility labelled 'single sex women' and another longside labelled 'women and .....' and that's fine, no issues there, except really the second one is 'mixed sex' and there would have to be some way of expressing it was men who chose that space and it was not general mixed sex without a) misleading women or b) accidentally handing men a case to sue for discrimination.

The other issue is that with no way to define trans or gender, you would have trouble excluding anyone from the space.

nicepotoftea · 13/02/2026 19:23

Signalbox · 13/02/2026 19:20

I still can't see how a labelled facility could be mixed sex while excluding some men.

I think this must be wrong. There is no mechanism in law to provide a mixed sex facility that excludes only certain men. Other groups of men (gay men or Dad’s with daughters or boys) might also feel that they should have access for various reasons and that the men’s toilets was less favourable than the mixed sex facility. If the GLP appeal perhaps this para 61 will be challenged.

Edited

If a disadvantage could be shown it would be unlawful.

The judge is just theorising that there might be situations where it wouldn't be unlawful.

It would be 'brave' to take Maughams' analysis at face value.

(I wonder if anyone still asks him for tax advice?)

anyolddinosaur · 13/02/2026 19:49

"performatively grifting" was a beautiful description for the GLP. Perhaps even trans reddit might finally rumble them. Peter Daly's comment on X (quoted on p 22 on here) made me laugh.

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/02/2026 19:53

Is the Judge aware that there are design differences between a single sex toilet and a unisex toilet? The two are not equal in building standards or legislation. Most single sex designs can not be used as a mixed sex design. But a mixed sex design can be used as single sex.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/02/2026 20:02

There is no mechanism in law to provide a mixed sex facility that excludes only certain men

I think this bit may be about discrimination, which require disadvantage. If there are also male toilets then this hypothetical male would be at no disadvantage because he could go to the male toilets. If there are only M & F toilets then potentially the TW would be disadvantaged / discriminated against - their privacy and dignity if they use the mens. But then they can't use the F toilets because that disadvantages the women - the women's privacy / dignity.

It's a mess and gender reassignment as a PC needs to be removed from the EA (it would be covered under belief or disability instead) and the GRA needs repealed.

Talkinpeace · 13/02/2026 20:03

1992 H&S regs Section 20
for those who still do not get it

DownhillTeaTray · 13/02/2026 20:15

PronounssheRa · 13/02/2026 18:41

Jolyon 2019 the Government should respect the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court says its the law, it's the law.

Jolyon 2026 the Government should 'correct' the Supreme Court.

Wild times

There's always a tweet 😆

OP posts:
DownhillTeaTray · 13/02/2026 20:18

dreichluver · 13/02/2026 19:10

Women didn’t sell this lie.

Ruth Hunt. Theresa May. Maria Miller. Nicola Sturgeon. Harriet Harman. Angela Rayner.

And a smorgasbord of other political and academic handmaidens.

Unfortunately women don't come out of this mess with completely clean hands.

In words you don't hear very often - thank god for Liz Truss. She stopped self ID under the GRA.

OP posts:
theilltemperedamateur · 13/02/2026 20:31

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/02/2026 20:02

There is no mechanism in law to provide a mixed sex facility that excludes only certain men

I think this bit may be about discrimination, which require disadvantage. If there are also male toilets then this hypothetical male would be at no disadvantage because he could go to the male toilets. If there are only M & F toilets then potentially the TW would be disadvantaged / discriminated against - their privacy and dignity if they use the mens. But then they can't use the F toilets because that disadvantages the women - the women's privacy / dignity.

It's a mess and gender reassignment as a PC needs to be removed from the EA (it would be covered under belief or disability instead) and the GRA needs repealed.

There is no mechanism in law to provide a mixed sex facility that excludes only certain men

Well, yes, there is, and that's to not rely on a SSE in the first place, which is what he's hyothesising. He's keeping open that a situation of this sort could arise which doesn't contravene EA2010 because, on analysis, no one group is treated less favourably. He doesn't know if this will ever arise, but he can't rule it out.

If there are also male toilets then this hypothetical male would be at no disadvantage because he could go to the male toilets.

There's case law (Coll) which seems to establish that this factor on its own can't prove non-discrimination. He seems to be referring to it just to go on and say that there might be something else in the picture and we need to look at the whole picture.

I think he's right in principle but it's all a bit cerebral, and I fear could be extrapolated to other parts of the Act.

ProfessorBinturong · 13/02/2026 20:42

SidewaysOtter · 13/02/2026 12:25

Quite, I've always heard that all trans folx are lovely and kind and never ever a problem to anyone else (which would potentially explain the complete lack of reference to the Canada mass shooter). So why can't they all be in a bathroom together? Or is it shades of the sporting competition where a parent said it was, of course, brilliant that there was a trans category but perhaps it should be divided into AFAB and AMAB to make it fairer?

Aside from anything else, what's making me angry about this is that a lot of GLP's followers/supporters are quite vulnerable kids. The ethics of them being lied to is off the fucking scale.

The marvellous thing about that sports-category complaint was that it was the nonbinary race she thought should be split into 2 for fairness.

DownhillTeaTray · 13/02/2026 20:47

GLP have behaved so appallingly badly over this that I wonder if some of their supporters, ie not the deluded transes but actual legal and intelligent people IRL, maybe people in Garden Court Chambers, for instance, and in his dinner party set in Islington, etc will start to look at him slighly askance?

Even some in trans Reddit (not just P-t-d) are asking some reality-based questions...

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