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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GLP v EHRC judgement is coming tomorrow

1000 replies

DownhillTeaTray · 12/02/2026 14:44

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

Jolyon Maugham KC (@goodlawproject.org)

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

OP posts:
Thread gallery
51
MyrtleLion · 13/02/2026 17:34

DrBlackbird · 13/02/2026 17:27

Yes it is this that is confusing me. Even after reading others replies (thank you). Shame the ruling was not more black and white. It’s going to leave a loophole of confusion that TRs will drive a bulldozer through. Am (faintly) hoping that ESRC guidance will make it all clear.

As long as they provide single sex toilets for women and men they can also provide toilets for trans identifying men (transwomen) and women to use.

But it will be unworkable.

Four or five spaces:
Women (single sex)
Men (single sex)
Inclusive/accessible
Women and transwomen
Men and transmen.

See - unworkable.

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/02/2026 17:34

This is a good booklet to show you how much thought goes into toilet design in stations. I don’t agree with the trough sinks as it’s embarrassing washing period blood off and it doesn’t travel quickly down the plug hole, so many pass another person washing their hands. I also think there should be a gap between the single sex cubicles at floor level as well as their requirement by the door. If only to pass toilet paper to each other when you have a period and have used it all up. They have good door gaps, and even explain why partitions shouldn’t be flat topped. They also say about the problems of privacy and misuse but then negate it all by talking about a private gender neutral toilet (!).

Note the calculations for women’s v men’s toilet numbers and the larger cubicle sizes for women and the holy grail - more space on one side for the sanitary bin.

I will also never look at transparent bin liners in the same light.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/NR_GN_CIV_200_04-Public-Toilets.pdf

Copied and pasted to show how gender neutral toilet design comes at a cost to health and safety:
Accessible and unisex sanitary
accommodation is often subject to
misuse by the general public due to
the self-contained nature of these
facilities. For this reason, accessible
facilities should be fitted with controlled
access through use of a RADAR
(Royal Association for Disability and
Rehabilitation) approved lock.
Unisex sanitary accommodation that is
not designed for use by PRMs, such as
a dedicated gender-neutral WC, should
not have controlled access to safeguard
the availability of the facility for all those
who require it.

(PRM = person with reduced mobility)

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/NR_GN_CIV_200_04-Public-Toilets.pdf

MyrtleLion · 13/02/2026 17:37

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/02/2026 17:34

This is a good booklet to show you how much thought goes into toilet design in stations. I don’t agree with the trough sinks as it’s embarrassing washing period blood off and it doesn’t travel quickly down the plug hole, so many pass another person washing their hands. I also think there should be a gap between the single sex cubicles at floor level as well as their requirement by the door. If only to pass toilet paper to each other when you have a period and have used it all up. They have good door gaps, and even explain why partitions shouldn’t be flat topped. They also say about the problems of privacy and misuse but then negate it all by talking about a private gender neutral toilet (!).

Note the calculations for women’s v men’s toilet numbers and the larger cubicle sizes for women and the holy grail - more space on one side for the sanitary bin.

I will also never look at transparent bin liners in the same light.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/NR_GN_CIV_200_04-Public-Toilets.pdf

Copied and pasted to show how gender neutral toilet design comes at a cost to health and safety:
Accessible and unisex sanitary
accommodation is often subject to
misuse by the general public due to
the self-contained nature of these
facilities. For this reason, accessible
facilities should be fitted with controlled
access through use of a RADAR
(Royal Association for Disability and
Rehabilitation) approved lock.
Unisex sanitary accommodation that is
not designed for use by PRMs, such as
a dedicated gender-neutral WC, should
not have controlled access to safeguard
the availability of the facility for all those
who require it.

(PRM = person with reduced mobility)

I agree but RADAR keys are easily purchased online by anyone who wants one.

NotAtMyAge · 13/02/2026 17:38

Catiette · 13/02/2026 12:09

Yes, impressed by Dollz here and in other debates. Clear, accurate, largely empathetic - and rather brave to go against the grain with simple but uncomfortable truths. It does throw a rather damning light on the majority of posters with whom they engage, though.

Still happy to dismiss us on FWR as terfs though...

DabOfPistachio · 13/02/2026 17:41

I think everyone is tying themselves in knots with this. Mostly because GLP and TRAs are busy muddying everything to try make it look more complicated.
Basically, the judge dismissed all three grounds of GLP's challenge.
The judgment confirms that under both the EA and under Workplace Regulations, "man" and "woman" mean biological man and biological woman, and that single-sex facilities cease to be single-sex if trans people of the opposite biological sex are permitted to use them.
The judgement notes that the law provides a "floor not a ceiling". This means that genuine single sex provision in the workplace is the minimum requirement, but there's nothing stopping service providers from providing additional mixed-sex facilities (third space or a gender neutral option).
For service providers, they aren't required to provide single-sex facilities at all (unlike workplaces where it's compulsory), but if they choose to and say it's for "women" then it has to be single sex and the same rules apply.
Same with workplaces, they can say they are providing "womens" and "mens" and those have to be single sex but there's nothing stopping them adding additional mixed provision.
Regards paragraph 61, there was an argument made before the court that if a space includes biological females and biological men identifying as female, then excluding non-trans biological men could be discriminatory.
The judge essentially responded with "if a single sex facility includes trans women, it could be less favourable treatment to exclude other men as it is now a mixed-sex space." It's a hypothetical observation about one argument, not a green light for anything.
GLP took this all and ran away with it. Because the law doesn't prohibit additional mixed provision (third spaces), they claim this means that mixed spaces can be called women's spaces.
It's a reach so far that they've probably sprained something.

ProtectedlyInsufferable · 13/02/2026 17:43

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/02/2026 17:34

This is a good booklet to show you how much thought goes into toilet design in stations. I don’t agree with the trough sinks as it’s embarrassing washing period blood off and it doesn’t travel quickly down the plug hole, so many pass another person washing their hands. I also think there should be a gap between the single sex cubicles at floor level as well as their requirement by the door. If only to pass toilet paper to each other when you have a period and have used it all up. They have good door gaps, and even explain why partitions shouldn’t be flat topped. They also say about the problems of privacy and misuse but then negate it all by talking about a private gender neutral toilet (!).

Note the calculations for women’s v men’s toilet numbers and the larger cubicle sizes for women and the holy grail - more space on one side for the sanitary bin.

I will also never look at transparent bin liners in the same light.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/NR_GN_CIV_200_04-Public-Toilets.pdf

Copied and pasted to show how gender neutral toilet design comes at a cost to health and safety:
Accessible and unisex sanitary
accommodation is often subject to
misuse by the general public due to
the self-contained nature of these
facilities. For this reason, accessible
facilities should be fitted with controlled
access through use of a RADAR
(Royal Association for Disability and
Rehabilitation) approved lock.
Unisex sanitary accommodation that is
not designed for use by PRMs, such as
a dedicated gender-neutral WC, should
not have controlled access to safeguard
the availability of the facility for all those
who require it.

(PRM = person with reduced mobility)

They’re building a new station for our area with no toilets at all - problem solved!

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/02/2026 17:43

MyrtleLion · 13/02/2026 17:37

I agree but RADAR keys are easily purchased online by anyone who wants one.

Yes I agree. A couple of quid off eBay. And hidden cameras very cheap off Amazon. We don’t need more mixed sex, completely private toilets.

If you contrast what happens in train carriage toilets (mixed sex, private) it shows the problem. Horrifying stories in what you assume to be very public spaces - but behind a closed door.

RedToothBrush · 13/02/2026 17:45

MyrtleLion · 13/02/2026 17:34

As long as they provide single sex toilets for women and men they can also provide toilets for trans identifying men (transwomen) and women to use.

But it will be unworkable.

Four or five spaces:
Women (single sex)
Men (single sex)
Inclusive/accessible
Women and transwomen
Men and transmen.

See - unworkable.

Edited

It would be workable at a festival. It's about the only place it would be.

DabOfPistachio · 13/02/2026 17:47

So the TDLR is:
Workplaces have to provide actual single sex spaces. If they want to add toilets for every one of the 72 different genders they can do that, but they still have the basic starter pack of single-sex men and single-sex women.
Service providers don't have to provide facilities at all under the EA, but if they do and they claim they are for women, then women's means biological women. And if they don't provide single-sex women's facilities, they might face an indirect sex discrimination claim from women.

theilltemperedamateur · 13/02/2026 17:48

DrBlackbird · 13/02/2026 17:27

Yes it is this that is confusing me. Even after reading others replies (thank you). Shame the ruling was not more black and white. It’s going to leave a loophole of confusion that TRs will drive a bulldozer through. Am (faintly) hoping that ESRC guidance will make it all clear.

Yes, we've been assuming that trans-inclusive 'single-sex' things are intrinsically and always discriminatory against the (rest of) the other sex, and that this cannot be cured by any of the EA exemptions, because they only apply to actually single-sex things. (This is reinforced by Coll, where a party tried unsuccessfully to argue that there was no discrimination because the victims had their own thing and didn't need the thing they were excluded from.)

Swift is saying that this is not intrinsic to 'trans-inclusivity' but contingent on the overall picture, requiring a 'less favourable treatment ' analysis.

So a trans-inclusive thing becomes a theoretical possibility, not as a SSE, but as a thing which in overall context does not result in illegitimate unfavourable treatment of any one group.

(Of course, certain mixed-sex things do treat women unfavourably, but that's a different issue and still, in principle, needs to be proved for any given thing. Eg Darlington proved it for nurse's changing rooms, and so forth.)

RedToothBrush · 13/02/2026 17:52

theilltemperedamateur · 13/02/2026 17:48

Yes, we've been assuming that trans-inclusive 'single-sex' things are intrinsically and always discriminatory against the (rest of) the other sex, and that this cannot be cured by any of the EA exemptions, because they only apply to actually single-sex things. (This is reinforced by Coll, where a party tried unsuccessfully to argue that there was no discrimination because the victims had their own thing and didn't need the thing they were excluded from.)

Swift is saying that this is not intrinsic to 'trans-inclusivity' but contingent on the overall picture, requiring a 'less favourable treatment ' analysis.

So a trans-inclusive thing becomes a theoretical possibility, not as a SSE, but as a thing which in overall context does not result in illegitimate unfavourable treatment of any one group.

(Of course, certain mixed-sex things do treat women unfavourably, but that's a different issue and still, in principle, needs to be proved for any given thing. Eg Darlington proved it for nurse's changing rooms, and so forth.)

Re Darlington. Saying that the transwoman could use the women's but the women who objected could use the women's fire cupboard was always going to be discriminatory because the size of the space is unsuitable. You could make the 'inclusive women's' but you would have to ensure you weren't putting the women at significant disadvantage (eg significant queuing / overcrowding / dangerous or shit facilities). This is why the inclusive space will always be the smaller one and that's generally going to merely be a third space for practical reasons.

WallaceinAnderland · 13/02/2026 17:53

More from PTD on reddit. They are starting to question JM's statement.

PTD And then today they are posting statements which are hugely misleading about the 'silver' lining of the judgement and an outright lie with Maugham claiming the guidance will need to be redrawn and rewritten. When actually the judge found against him on all the points subject to review.

Q from poster: Is it just not true that the verdict rules that women's services can include trans women by excluding men, then?

PTD Yes. That is just not true. A mixed sex service can be run which includes both cis and trans women but not men, without it being direct discrimination against men. But it may be indirect discrimination against women if there are no separate single sex services.

MalagaNights · 13/02/2026 17:57

DabOfPistachio · 13/02/2026 17:41

I think everyone is tying themselves in knots with this. Mostly because GLP and TRAs are busy muddying everything to try make it look more complicated.
Basically, the judge dismissed all three grounds of GLP's challenge.
The judgment confirms that under both the EA and under Workplace Regulations, "man" and "woman" mean biological man and biological woman, and that single-sex facilities cease to be single-sex if trans people of the opposite biological sex are permitted to use them.
The judgement notes that the law provides a "floor not a ceiling". This means that genuine single sex provision in the workplace is the minimum requirement, but there's nothing stopping service providers from providing additional mixed-sex facilities (third space or a gender neutral option).
For service providers, they aren't required to provide single-sex facilities at all (unlike workplaces where it's compulsory), but if they choose to and say it's for "women" then it has to be single sex and the same rules apply.
Same with workplaces, they can say they are providing "womens" and "mens" and those have to be single sex but there's nothing stopping them adding additional mixed provision.
Regards paragraph 61, there was an argument made before the court that if a space includes biological females and biological men identifying as female, then excluding non-trans biological men could be discriminatory.
The judge essentially responded with "if a single sex facility includes trans women, it could be less favourable treatment to exclude other men as it is now a mixed-sex space." It's a hypothetical observation about one argument, not a green light for anything.
GLP took this all and ran away with it. Because the law doesn't prohibit additional mixed provision (third spaces), they claim this means that mixed spaces can be called women's spaces.
It's a reach so far that they've probably sprained something.

This is really helpful thank you.

crascenda · 13/02/2026 17:58

In the hypothetical (and IMV unlikely) situation of a toilet being made available (voluntarily) by an employer for women and TiM - along with separate single sex F and M, why is there a reference to it being called "Women's"?

What have I missed, or is it that TiMs notwithstanding their biological reality are accepted as being "Women" for this decision by the employer?

I have to admit that this part of the narrative in the judgment puzzled me. A lot.

nicepotoftea · 13/02/2026 17:59

LeftieRightsHoarder · 13/02/2026 15:26

service providers may lawfully provide, for example, women’s toilets which both cis and trans women are permitted to use, but from which cis men are still excluded.

I don’t understand this. It is the opposite of the SC judgement, isn’t it? The whole point is that TWAM, so if they’re allowed into women’s facilities, then all men have to be allowed in. It’s the last thing we want.

Sorry I’ve been in a rush and may have missed the answer to this.

I thought the judgment said not that this would be lawful, but that whether it would be unlawful would depend on the circumstances.

In the example they would be discriminating based on gender, and gender is not a protected characteristic, so I think the suggestion is that the man would not suffer discrimination if he also had similar toilet provision.

These would basically just be mixed sex toilets but divided for reasons that on the face of it have nothing to do with a protected characteristic.

However, whether lack of single sex provision discriminates against women is another matter.

MyrtleLion · 13/02/2026 18:05

It is also notable that the judgment made it crystal clear that the PC of gender reassignment is not based on self identity.

MyrtleLion · 13/02/2026 18:06

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/02/2026 17:43

Yes I agree. A couple of quid off eBay. And hidden cameras very cheap off Amazon. We don’t need more mixed sex, completely private toilets.

If you contrast what happens in train carriage toilets (mixed sex, private) it shows the problem. Horrifying stories in what you assume to be very public spaces - but behind a closed door.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Train toilets are better or worse than individual accessible toilets in buildings?

BeKindWisely · 13/02/2026 18:18

SerendipityJane · 13/02/2026 16:17

Isn't there a weird inverted snobbery around this ?

"Lavatory" being a dead giveaway that you are pretend posh,. as real posh people say "toilet". ?

Like napkins and serviettes?

Another2Cats · 13/02/2026 18:22

Datun · 13/02/2026 16:59

thanks for answering my questions!

Is this right?

firstly, most of the time the gents have equal provision to the women, in terms of decent spec.

And I absolutely don't think, in terms of toilets (unlike the WI), that other men are discriminated against. It's nonsense. They've got their own very nice toilet. End of.

So in terms of telling JM that no, men are not discriminated against if TIMs use the ladies, I get it in terms of actual discrimination. Except they are being treated differently than men who say they are women. in So as far as the comparison goes they are being discriminated against, are they not?

And secondly, let me see if I've got this right. Is the judge is saying that should TIMs enter women's spaces, men will not be disadvantaged, but that doesn't mean they can enter, because women might be disadvantaged?

Because that's not how it read. And also, I thought this had already been dealt with!! That yes, women are disadvantaged, so it's a non-starter.

"Except they are being treated differently than men who say they are women. in So as far as the comparison goes they are being discriminated against, are they not?"

There is quite a long answer to this question but, in summary, it is ok for people to be treated differently as long as nobody is treated "less favourably". Different treatment doesn't necessarily imply discrimination.

But sometimes it can be difficult to work out whether discrimination has taken place or not.

The judge cited three cases that seem to be the leading cases in this area (I've seen them cited in other cases as well).

In one of them, Smith v Safeway, the company had dress standards of short hair for men, but women were allowed long hair. A male employee with a ponytail was sacked and he then brought a sex discrimination claim.

The Court of Appeal dismissed the claim saying that a dress code that required both sexes to have different, but equally conventional, standards did not treat either sex less favourably.

The court also noted that a standard that was the same for men and women could actually treat one sex less favourably. Imagine if the dress code was that every employee of Tesco had to wear lipstick. Although men and women would be treated equally this would be treating men less favourably as it is not conventional for men to wear lipstick.
.

"Is the judge is saying that should TIMs enter women's spaces, men will not be disadvantaged, but that doesn't mean they can enter, because women might be disadvantaged?"

Correct - sort of. The judge doesn't say that TiM cannot enter women's toilets if a service provider has a "trans-inclusive" toilet.

What he does say is that if TiM are allowed to use the women's toilets then it becomes a mixed-sex toilet (para [53])

He also says (at [52]) that the absence of single-sex female toilets could amount to indirect discrimination. Whether such a claim would be succesful would be:

"... fact-dependent, for example on how the matters referred to at section 19(1)(b) (disadvantage), and (d) (proportionality) fell to be assessed."
.

"And also, I thought this had already been dealt with!! That yes, women are disadvantaged, so it's a non-starter."

Not necessarily, don't forget Kelly v Leonardo employment tribunal case from last year. Although, having said that, the judge also briefly cited Kelly in the judgment (at [41]) and said he preferred his own thoughts on the Workplace Regs:

[41] "This was a claim under the EA 2010 but in the course of its reasoning the Tribunal had cause to consider the meaning and effect of regulation 20 of the 1992 Workplace Regulations. I have considered the relevant part of the Tribunal’s reasons (paragraphs 207 – 245) but none of the points set out there cause me to doubt any of the conclusions above or the meaning and effect of regulation 20."

As I think somebody said near the start of the thread, quoting WInston Churchill, - It is not the beginning of the end. But it is perhaps the end of the beginning.

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/02/2026 18:26

MyrtleLion · 13/02/2026 18:06

I'm not sure what you are saying. Train toilets are better or worse than individual accessible toilets in buildings?

The booklet I mentioned before was for train stations. It’s actually very detailed and shows the consideration that goes into design. It separates toilets into male and female, detailing why the differences are there in numbers too (females have more toilets and hand basins).

In contrast, in train carriages, the toilet is unisex and private. There’s a lot of misuse and unfortunately sexual assaults which shocked me as you imagine train carriages to be very public and somehow that would be a protective factor.

Mmmnotsure · 13/02/2026 18:34

From Peter Daly on X

@peter_daly
If @GoodLawProject’s false conspiracy of a shadowy cabal conspiring against trans rights were true, that cabal would first create GLP to absorb all available donor £ on doomed litigation to secure binding authority that GLP legal analysis is bobbins.

PronounssheRa · 13/02/2026 18:41

Jolyon 2019 the Government should respect the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court says its the law, it's the law.

Jolyon 2026 the Government should 'correct' the Supreme Court.

Wild times

GLP v EHRC judgement is coming tomorrow
nicepotoftea · 13/02/2026 18:46

Datun · 13/02/2026 14:53

i'm still confused about this bit.

I realise it might be him musing about the possibility of this, if the likelihood of that happens, when there's a smidge of a chance of the other being in place, but still...

(For the purposes of the EA 2010 the lavatory would be mixed-sex, but for the purposes of the Claimants' submission in this case it would still be labelled "women".)

So if they had a toilet that was for women and transwomen, it would, according to the law be mixed sex, but could be labelled women?

I realise that transwomen are going to leap at this, because it's validation. Even if women have a single sex toilet elsewhere, one labelled women that TW can use and other men can't, is very validating.

But, it's a nightmare for women.

They go to a toilet marked women, believing in the legal comfort of it being single sex, and there are men in it? Plus there's the whole fucking reanimated bollocks of what constitutes trans.

Realistically, how is this ever going to work? Women might have a space they can go to of their own, but they're not going to know which one if they're both labelled women??

Edited

I think the judgement is not that this would definitely be lawful (as interpreted by the GLP) but that the EHRC's advice that it probably isn't depends on circumstances. As far as I can the EHRC haven't been told to change their advice.

I also think that a service provider who purports to provide a facility for women while actually providing a mixed sex service is on shaky ground for more reasons that Equality legislation.

Catiette · 13/02/2026 18:50

Thanks to all for the ongoing commentary.

Meanwhile, I've spent a busy afternoon designing the proposed educational materials to help with all the confusion. I'm pleased to announce that they're at last ready for publication, and will shortly be available at all good retailers.

The book is, inevitably, currently under embargo (AKA a sensitive image 🙄), but a sneak preview should appear here shortly.

Btw, when it does, you'll see - if you look (too!) closely at the logo - that despite my best efforts, I couldn't get Ladybird to publish it 😔. I seem to have ended up with the second-rate pretender house, Ladyguin (also affectionately known as Pengbird). Oh, well.

GLP v EHRC judgement is coming tomorrow
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