The Countess - Womens rights group in Ireland - Report on Immigration Effects on Women & Girls

[KnottyAuty]

Irish people are being forced to accept policy that transgresses fundamental boundaries and treats nature, identity, culture, family, and nationality as negotiable when in fact, the family unit, community, and inherited culture are the scaffolding of a stable society. We at The Countess are unafraid of analysing policy through the lens of womens’ rights and child safeguarding.

thecountess.ie/a-new-campaign-a-new-direction-a-new-mission/

Report: Through a Safeguarding lens, darkly: a thematic report into the International Protection Provision in Ireland

The report has identified significant shifts in the nature of sexual violence across Europe, highlighting emergent trends in opportunistic street attacks and group-based sexual assaults. The findings raise urgent questions for Irish policymakers as the State continues to accommodate over 33,000 individuals in the International Protection system without screening them against European Crime databases.

Drawing on official statistics from multiple EU member states including Austria, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Italy, and France, the report outlines clear evidence that foreign-born individuals are over-represented in sexual offence data, often by a factor of three to four, with even higher rates in specific subcategories such as gang rape.

Sounds like a brilliant piece of work. And I suddenly feel as though I now need to think more deeply/critically about news coverage which portrays those protesting about immigration hotels as right wing racists… all sounding awfully familiar…

Does anyone know if UK immigration stats are disaggregated to allow a similar comparison?

I never said I agree with all trans advocacy. I don;t. But it;s heavily exaggerated and dramatized.

It's not an assumption that a particular man is a rapist. It's looking at statistical evidence of what happens when a large number of men from a particular country enter the UK. If lots of women and girls are raped, should we repeat the process? Are we allowed to look at the impact on our current citizens at all, or should we just allow in anyone who wants to enter the country and live here permanently? Do we have a moral duty to accept that life for women and girls in the UK will get worse?

So encourage people to be nuanced about it? It doesn't affect me.

Again, we need to look at evidence, not just assumptions. There should be serious evidence-gathering and research.

What part of you understanding I'm not arguing against race, but nationality.
Like, Canadians are a secular/Christian country, if data showed their men offending 20x more than Brits, then I'm gonna have an issue with this...not secular/Christians generally.
Try and read my argument, not criticise me on false pretences.

Again, it doesn't matter how nuanced we are, the law is the law.

I'm still waiting for your reply to my previous question on why you think it's OK for trans identifying males to be placed in women's refuges/hostels but not in prisons, particularly as the women in prison would be less at risk due to the level of supervision.

It doesn't affect you until it affects you. Also, there are plenty of things that don't affect me personally that I am concerned about. Child and animal abuse for example.

I'm going to leave this thread now as I don't know how the law or criminal justice system works in Ireland and am looking at things from a UK perspective - apologies. If transwomen are legally for all purposes deemed to be women under Irish law, Ireland has a very, very big problem.

Yes we do.

Bloody hell. This thread is a depressing read. ‘feminists’ complaining about evidence based data on male patterns of sexual offending, being disgusted this is gathered and flouncing off.

You are no bloody different from TRA supporting liberal ‘feminists’. Same attitude, same reaction. Facts make you uncomfortable. Attack those talking about the facts.

Dear Readers

FallenSloppyDead2 · Today 15:17
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a man is guilty of a sexual crime
...
male demographics and types of sexual crime.

Gridania · Today 15:19
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cultures that are heavily bigoted to the point of imprisoning/executing people.

Can anyone spot the difference ?

Which women and girls? Women and girls have vastly different experiences from each other, as do men and boys. There's a lot more to people's experiences than being male or female.

"It's looking at statistical evidence of what happens when a large number of men from a particular country enter the UK." Most men are not rapists, and it's not okay to tell men where they can or can;t go because you can't stop thinking about how one of them MIGHT rape you. You may as well just constantly worry about being murdered or even just being mugged in that case. You clearly can't comprehend why what you're saying is demented, nor did you offer any explanation how this should work in other regards. Can we ban anyone for any perceived bigotry? Why just sexism? What about anti gay, anti trans, ableist or racist people? Should the ones in our own country be deported? We know that conservatives in the UK are an existential threat to many sick and disabled people given their support for cutting needed support, actively making the lives of needy people and their caregivers much more financially difficult. People are constantly causing harm all the time, in all manner if ways. Shall we decide where they ALL can or can;t go? You haven't really thought any of that through.

I agree - I want data collected and then studied so we can use it to prevent further criminal behaviour, I don't want political squeamishness to prevent us being able to sensibly address criminal behaviour. I want no more sacred castes of men in this country! I want to know as much data as possible about every man that commits sexual offences so we can use that information to prevent further offending in the future.

IF there is an overrepresentation of certain groups of men in offending stats then they need to be targeted for increased attention and effort by Gardaí. I don't want Ireland to be like the UK has been about its rape gangs scandal - those men in the UK got away with treating young girls worse than animals because local authorities and police cared very little about working class girls and were scared of being thought racist.

Ireland has historically had an awful problem with taking sexual offending against women and children seriously, and I see the failure of the Gardaí, the courts, and the govt to collect useful data on sexual offenders as continuing that inability to take their responsibility towards us seriously. I support The Countess for making at start at providing us with data to start a conversation on this issue.

You haven't really thought any of that through.

Another irony meter explodes

Men committing sex crimes more than women is not justification to accuse people of rape for no reason. That you don't think so is indicative of illiberalism.

Well, you're arguing that we can assume people are rapists based on where they come from, so why would you have a problem with deporting actual proven evildoers?

Can you explain why you think thought policing is okay?

@Gridania I'm going to gently suggest that your personal experience is making you unable to approach this topic logically. You are not reading posts carefully and are unable to see beyond your own pre-conceived notions of what posters are saying. Maybe you should consider stepping away from a thread that is clearly triggering to you.

The crazy thing is, the criticism is not just a population having an aversion to the people carrying our crimes, but the very act of collecting the data, and publishing it.
Right now there are "feminists" arguing that there should be no collecting of data of trans in women's jails.
They say trans offenders are not inherently more dangerous than women, any call that they are is transphobic and inhumane, and it's kowtowing to transphobia to collect data let alone publish it.
And then the deliberate conflating of creed religion with nationality.
Plenty of non secular non Christian migrants have no flags re sexual crime, the data shows eg HK Chinese migrants etc are less likely to be sexual offenders than indigenous Brits. Poles, ditto. Ghanaians. Syrians of Sufi faith.
However Afghans, Iraqis, Eritreans have sexual offences data that would make your hair curl. Only when you have data collected and published can you make correct public policy, and critically, keep the people onside.

Why do you need 'data' to prove something you already know? And why do you think it's okay to accuse people of crimes they haven't committed because of said data?

Nobody is saying that people should be accused of committing rape for no reason. We just want to know if certain subgroups of men are SIGNIFICANTLY MORE LIKELY to commit sex offences than other men so that campaigns can tailored to deal with it. As much data on offending patterns of sub-groups of the population as possible should be collected, not just on nationality or ethnicity. Other things such as income, education level etc should also be collected. Knowing the details will help society better tackle problems.

Why don't you care about same sex sexual assault, which happens much more often? And how does data make it okay to assume someone is a criminal?

Harm comes in all forms too, so why is sexual violence prioritized against all else?

People are literally saying it's okay to deny men entry based on where they come from. That's penalizing people based on assumption of guilt.

A police line up contains one suspect and other people the police already know couldn't possibly be guilty, which is the basis for selecting them. An innocent man will never be a 'fall guy' because a woman mistakes him in a line up for her rapist.

And why does this only apply to rape, as opposed to anything else?

Reality says otherwise. Hence why people end up arrested for things they didn't do.