Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reasons for not moving right like young men

263 replies

Warmlight1 · 23/01/2026 21:21

Are women put off the right because of outright boorishness and right wing female Mps who are promoted withing a very constrained patriarchy and consequently end up not making sense? Is it also to do with the ingressing on women's right by the ultra religious?
Are public services more important to women than men? Was specifically female leadership significant in New Zealand during the pandemic and ultimately safer and was that about gender?
Or something else?
Brexit?
Why is there a difference of direction?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
earlyr1ser · 04/05/2026 07:36

@Carla786: where the money is big, the women are small. That’s the whole picture. Embroidering it with evolutionary just-so stories is a hobby for small minds.

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/05/2026 11:41

earlyr1ser · 19/04/2026 14:28

Cultural resonance is the key phrase here. Culture is a function of power; it varies from place to place. In China, having bound feet once signalled femininity; in the Middle East and Africa, femininity requires circumcision. Neither of these procedures arise from biology. They are the product of cultures that measure women wholly by their price on the marriage-market, and so give women no option but to comply with their standards - and, indeed, to enforce them.

Symbolism and psychology, as you say, shape what humans see. But they change with the humans who are doing the seeing. Physiology, on the other hand, does not. Smudging the former into the latter is the oldest trick in the patriarchy playbook - but these days, it's a trick that persuades only the very young and the very naive.

Edited

Culture is not just about power, it is also about shared meaning - the roots of which are related to shared human experience and understanding. Males are subject to stereotypes and cultural expectations too. They symbols and stereotypes ( and practices) may differ slightly between cultures and societies but the origins of the initial differentiation are just the same.

You accept that there are differences at the level of biology and function between males and females - yet you dismiss the suggestion that these differences will inevitably have echoes at other levels. I suppose if you view everything through a lens of "patriarchal power and playbooks" then you may well be inclined to deny that a culture's symbolism could possibly arise from an attempt to extrapolate from the biological and physical to the social and cultural.

I've a degree in, and have and even taught Sociology, an have read and appreciated Dale Spender and Andrea Dworkin - so I'm familiar with that sort of analysis - though attempts to dismiss as "young" or "naive" don't wash. There is such a thing as open minded exploration in which you are not compelled to have to apply a rigid ( or always the exact same) ideological framework to every situation, and which can permit you to gain greater understanding or certainly an enlarged perspective on how things have come to be the way they are.

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/05/2026 11:47

earlyr1ser · 04/05/2026 07:36

@Carla786: where the money is big, the women are small. That’s the whole picture. Embroidering it with evolutionary just-so stories is a hobby for small minds.

I guess that's your preferred story( created by exceptionally large mind, of course) and clearly you are sticking to it.

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/05/2026 11:50

Carla786 · 26/04/2026 22:26

That's a good point. Chinese footbinding was mainly a preoccupation of elite men (since the majority of women were rural and only lightly bound, if at all, so as to enable physical work). But elite men either pretended or sometimes really did belleve that normal feet were unfeminine. An extreme example with many parallels.

The practice of women wearing high heels is a parallel to be found in our culture of course.

CassOle · 04/05/2026 12:33

Ancient China also had a phrase about 'stinking like a Eunuch'. We should not forget that while males did not have their feet bound to create 'lotus feet', they were sometimes castrated (often with penis removal included, resulting in incontinence).

CassOle · 04/05/2026 12:34

Of course, we don't do anything so barbaric in current times...

earlyr1ser · 04/05/2026 15:10

“They [sic] symbols and stereotypes ( and practices) may differ slightly between cultures and societies but the origins of the initial differentiation are just the same.”

Just a matter of time, then, until all cultures converge. I’m sure your degree will seriously impress the men who “inevitably” end up back in control.

earlyr1ser · 04/05/2026 18:00

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/05/2026 11:50

The practice of women wearing high heels is a parallel to be found in our culture of course.

And going to the bingo is the same as being burned alive at your husband’s funeral #thesutteeshow

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/05/2026 19:43

earlyr1ser · 04/05/2026 15:10

“They [sic] symbols and stereotypes ( and practices) may differ slightly between cultures and societies but the origins of the initial differentiation are just the same.”

Just a matter of time, then, until all cultures converge. I’m sure your degree will seriously impress the men who “inevitably” end up back in control.

You've got your narrative and you are sticking to it.....I guess that saves the time and energy involved in being open to exploratory dialogue. Why bother when you have all the answers and you already know it all.

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/05/2026 19:53

earlyr1ser · 04/05/2026 18:00

And going to the bingo is the same as being burned alive at your husband’s funeral #thesutteeshow

Edited

I suggest you learn to distinguish between understanding or proposing an idea, position or perspective and validatiing its every manifestation. You need to be able to do that to engage in civilised debate. Debate and the airing of alternative perspectives need not become personal and unpleasant. Alternative explanations and open exploration of ideas are not your enemy

Just finished watching a new 'Storyville' episode ( BBC I player) which outlines the history of cancel culture and the social justice activism which spawned it, over the last decade or so, on American university campuses. A fraught and not particularly enjoyable watch - but instructive nonetheless.

earlyr1ser · 04/05/2026 20:26

”I suggest you learn to distinguish between understanding or proposing an idea, position or perspective and validatiing its every manifestation. You need to be able to do that to engage in civilised debate. Debate and the airing of alternative perspectives need not become personal and unpleasant. Alternative explanations and open exploration of ideas are not your enemy”

parklife

earlyr1ser · 04/05/2026 20:28

(if you know, you know.)

CassOle · 04/05/2026 20:47

You are implying that there are people who aren't fans of Britpop!
Madness, I say!

(But not the Baggy Trousers kind of Madness).

New posts on this thread. Refresh page