Isn’t AGP also what every woman experiences when they get dressed up & feel good about themselves?

[Theboredpanda]

I have no agenda here. I’ve always just been interested in exploring other perspectives of debates…although I’m sure this particular thought will get flamed on here and end up very one-sided indeed 🤣
I don’t believe every trans woman has AGP, but I believe a significant proportion do. And I’ve always considered that proportion to be creepy, I feel anger at the fact these men get to walk around, at least in some circles, socially accepted as women, just so they can satisfy a sexual fetish. However, I was thinking about how I feel as a woman who’s comfortable and happy about being a woman when I get dressed up in my favourite sexy outfit and put on some makeup. It makes me feel sexy. Not sexually aroused but I do feel sexy. Is that vastly different to what a trans woman feels like when they get dressed up and look (at least in their eyes) like a woman? Could it be that it’s either not AGP and we all feel sexy when we know we look good as the gender we are or want to be…or everyone’s a bit AGP when they think they look sexy because they therefore feel sexy? Or is this a totally unoriginal thought that’s already been troped out by TRAs and actually there is a huge difference??

You can tell they're on the ropes.

I love how they've gone from autogynephilia doesn't exist, shut your mouth, and anyway women do it too, to 'you mustn't identify it, in case it makes little boys want to be trans!' 😄

Well it’s better than complaining about being “misgendered” and whinging cos im not allowed to access spaces meant for the opposite sex. At least I know I’m on the side of sanity, reality and biology.

The chart shows that male people with transgender identities commit sex offences at no where near the rate of female people which is a major consideration for safeguarding policy based on the safety aspect.

The MoJ statistics do not reflect that there is a reduction in the general risk of this sub group of male people compared the male population of the UK. Therefore when considering whether this group of male people should be treated as if they are female with regards to access to female single sex provisions.

Particularly when combined with the knowledge that we have from the sports studies. Male people with transgender identities still retain male physical advantages. For instance, the lowest quartile of male people are still stronger than the strongest decile of female people. This means that any male person who might seek to physically harm a female person will mean she has less chance to escape when compared to her being attacked by another female person.

'What happened to the claim that most trans identified people are gay and autistic?'

Why is this relevant to a chart about male pattern criminality?

'You can't just show a chart generalizing that trans people commit more crime, and then have a tantrum when people think you're trying to demonize them'

Pointing out that this group of male people still commit crime in a male pattern of criminality is not demonising them. It is giving the foundation for their full exclusion from female single sex provisions.

People say a lot of things, you can ignore them.

"but let's not pretend it makes them of a different sex than the one they were born into"

I never once made any argument that a man wearing a dress means he changed sex, I simply criticized the many people, including some in this thread, who think that a man wearing a dress is an appropriate thing to pinpoint as a sign of predatory intentions, with ridiculous arguments like "Well, SOME men who wear dresses are predatory". Yes, and? So are some men who wear trousers. Generalizing men in dresses as a special and noteworthy threat is not going to encourage boys to be their authentic selves, especially when they're already used to seeing femininity in men being treated as a failing.

Skywinn obviously has a very peculiar definition of 'a wasted life' Namelessnelly😄

And yet, women and girls are being assaulted in toilets. Plus they are at risk of other harms too , including loss of privacy and dignity, and self exclusion.

So, why would anyone wish to add to the risk that this might happen by removing female single sex toilets.

Ooh, it's been a while since we had an 'evidence is bigoted!!!' poster. Takes me back...

I don't agree that men and women can't be in the same toilets or areas in general. Nude beaches and resorts are shared by both men and women. Men committing more sexual assault doesn't mean it's okay to accuse men of being predators for being in the same room as women just because the front door says "women" on it.

Men shouldn't be in women's prisons, but it also raises the question for why same sex rape and assault is treated as irrelevant in the media.

It's bigoted to generalise/accuse people of being predators based on dress sense, absolutely.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence backing up that assaults are happening in any toilets regularly, but in the case of assaults happening, that's on the individual. If a male goes into the women's room and doesn't assault anyone, that's not a crime.

The point is not whether I can ignore them or not. The point is that you are wrong about trans people not being concerned by gender norms. That's what I was arguing against.

who think that a man wearing a dress is an appropriate thing to pinpoint as a sign of predatory intentions

If he argues that wearing that dress should give him the right to access female spaces, then yes, his wearing that dress is indeed a sign of predatory intentions. If he doesn't, then cool, let him have his fun, I don't care.

Sex and gender are subjects of trauma for people like that, so obviously it will be a touchy subject.

I doubt you are fully on board with biological facts. From what I;ve seen, many people here are pretty offended by abortion being described as killing an developing baby, despite that being a factual statement. But it's treated as a harsh, cruel thing to say.

"his wearing that dress is indeed a sign of predatory intentions" Men using the women's rest room isn;t predatory. Being predatory is predatory.

Men committing more sexual assault doesn't mean it's okay to accuse men of being predators for being in the same room as women just because the front door says "women" on it.

Why does this remind me of Felix telling women they can't do this, that and the other, mustn't speculate, etc.

Because, Sky, you're very much mistaken. Women can absolutely accuse men who are violating their boundaries in their single sex space, without consent, as being predators.

They can say it all the live long day if they like.

I'm wondering if Skywinn is the same poster that derailed the thread about the new civil service role.

it's okay to accuse men of being predators for being in the same room as women just because the front door says "women" on it.

I think you're missing the point that whether or not men in women's spaces are predators - maybe they are, maybe they aren't, it's anybody's guess isn't it? - they are men in a space designated for women, it even has the word 'women' on the door.

Even if they are not there to predate, why on earth are they in a room designated for women at all, especially if the law says they have zero right to be there?
Just being there is factually transgressive, wouldn't you agree?

What is likely is that once it is very clear that assuming the stereotypical garb of the opposite sex doesnt entitle one to use the space of the opposite sex, opportunists, predators, and fetishists will increasingly fall away from the movement.

The more men argue.for the right to use women's spaces the bigger the red flags.

Its basic predator logic - create any sacred caste that claims to be above safeguarding, and predators will seek it out to abuse that loophole.

Why would a man be in a room with "women" on the door? (except for special cases already considered, such as a father with a young daughter.) What good reason could he have?

I think that if a man of any gender identity enters women only spaces he is acting in a predatory manner.

He knows that women are uncomfortable with it because women have said so, yet he goes there anyway.

I don't agree that men and women can't be in the same toilets

Lol

People entering a place where they know they shouldn't be is at the very least antisocial.

Just let men take their dress sense into the gents. It's not complicated.

'Being trans isn't an ideology.'

As there is no biological marker for indicating that a person is transgender, the commonality that remains is that people who have transgender identities have a belief that they have a gender identity. An identity that does not reflect their material reality. This identity is based on philosophical theories such as postmodernism and queer theory, theories that conceptualise that if someone describes themselves as something, they are what they describe themselves as.

Dude, you keep on keeping on refusing to read, consider or believe evidence (as you have stated many times during your one man stand on this thread). We've seen many posters come and go of the 'fingers in my ears so I can't hear you!!!' variety that it's all a bit old hat.

The evidence will still be there.

Soz.

So absurd to suggest men are entited to use spaces free of other men, but women aren't!