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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Gender war...This didn't come from the streets

155 replies

Mmmnotsure · 20/01/2026 09:16

Great summary/description by
Dennis Noel Kavanagh
on X as @Jebadoo2

1/ The Gender war is a class war. Trans activism was confabulated in universities where they'd run out of things to say, it was embraced by the bourgeois management types in HR and it corrupts the same in everything from unions to blue chips. This didn't come from the streets.

2/ Trans activism is indulged and has no central heroic historical point of defiance, so it steals the gay rights claim to Stonewall because at its heart, it's dreadfully aware of just how powerful and privileged it is. It's still really the only cult that can get you sacked

3/ It's the well fed goth teenage Marxist who knows where the next meal is coming from so screams "I hate you mum and dad" before stomping off to its well appointed bedroom. It's the child no one ever said "no" to and so it looks and sounds like precisely that in adversity.

4/ So often we see the low paid nurse against the well paid management or doctor. Or the most marginalised in society who have cause to actually use a rape refuge lectured by the otherwise unemployable bourgeois management class fresh from their stonewall course on pronouns.

5/ So often we see those who oppose gender ideology reliant on crowd funds and real solidarity and union ranged against the state funded, the corporate funded, the behemoth government department or indeed the actual Scottish government in the case of FWS.

6/ Trans activism lies like a fish swims from the transubstantiation sex change foundational lie the rotten edifice sits on, but the most obnoxious lie is that it is somehow marginalised or of the streets and there is nothing more contemptuous than this pretence.

7/ Trans activism routinely hires silks to vilify nurses, it cosplays protest all the time knowing the police and government will tolerate it, so it pretends to take corners on two wheels while being on guard rails. It is well fed, well appointed, well funded and comfortable.

8/ It will never match the real marginalisation of the working class nurse who needs an area to change, a female prisoner who has no choice of cell mate or the average Scottish woman fighting her own damned government. And it knows it. This, I think, is it's greatest jealousy.

OP posts:
Seethlaw · 21/01/2026 08:42

Gretel346 · 21/01/2026 06:15

'They just know' is how trans people explain it.

I'm not trans but I suspect there's probably a biological genetic/hormonal 'hiccup' in utero why they experience a mismatch between their minds & bodies.

I'm trans and I think a lot more research should be done into that "just knowing" argument. In my case, for example, it's very specifically a case of my mental map of my body being wrong for some reason, much like those people who think they should be missing a leg or an arm. It's nothing to do with whatever is meant by gender.

In fact, this thread has made me very confused, because I like wearing exclusively male clothes, and I've always been told I had unfeminine mannerisms since early childhood, but I also love putting on nail polish, and I have very stereotypically female hobbies. So what is my gender? I don't think anyone could tell, not even me.

sanluca · 21/01/2026 08:53

Gretel346 · 21/01/2026 05:31

You could say the same about reproductive characteristics defining social roles & norms. Ultimately, true liberty is about self determination.

This made me laugh. 'True liberty is self determination' is the ultimate bourgeois privilege. People who work to be able to feed their families, are struggling to keep afloat, don't have the luxury position of trying to achieve ' true liberty' and are stuck in the boundaries of life. Nothing self determination about it

Datun · 21/01/2026 09:05

Gretel346 totally proving Kavanagh's point.

Access to women's spaces is determined not on female biology, the basis of their oppression, but their credit card statements.

That's yer ackcheral facts.

Unlike the Supreme Court decision, which is apparently not precedent. The Supreme Court !😁

1984Now · 21/01/2026 09:08

This reply has been deleted

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Seethlaw · 21/01/2026 09:14

Regarding the OP: it was only when I finally solved far more pressing life problems that I had the mental space to realise I was trans. And it was only because I had the right social circumstances and the financial means to indulge, that I was able to transition socially and medically.

Heggettypeg · 21/01/2026 09:15

Gretel346 · 21/01/2026 07:56

Behaviours aren't culturally consistent because of cultural limitations not necessarily because inherent behaviours don't exist. Women in Iran were as liberal with their attire as women in the west pre revolution. That's why when social scientists measure inherent behaviours they focus on more egalitarian countries like Sweden that have less cultural pressures & a stronger emphasis on self determination. And interestingly, these countries have shown the greatest gap in employment choices between men & women.

If this gender malarkey has done anything, it's ripped the lid off the "official" narrative about women's rights in the UK and exposed the embedded rot of sexism still operating just under the surface of supposedly progressive institutions and supposedly enlightened individuals. And the way the law and other rules can be subverted by activist and male chauvinist foot-dragging. And the relentless social pressure on women - still - to Be Kind ( but not to ordinary women without special identities). I wonder if the social water everyone really swims in in the Scandinavian countries is any cleaner.

NorthXNorthWest · 21/01/2026 09:18

Seethlaw · 21/01/2026 08:42

I'm trans and I think a lot more research should be done into that "just knowing" argument. In my case, for example, it's very specifically a case of my mental map of my body being wrong for some reason, much like those people who think they should be missing a leg or an arm. It's nothing to do with whatever is meant by gender.

In fact, this thread has made me very confused, because I like wearing exclusively male clothes, and I've always been told I had unfeminine mannerisms since early childhood, but I also love putting on nail polish, and I have very stereotypically female hobbies. So what is my gender? I don't think anyone could tell, not even me.

Surely it doesn't matter as long as you are treated with resoect and in also respect the sanctity of which spaces are reasonably separated by sex - toilets, prisons, rape crisis centres, certain women and girls interest groups etc

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/01/2026 09:22

Datun · 21/01/2026 09:05

Gretel346 totally proving Kavanagh's point.

Access to women's spaces is determined not on female biology, the basis of their oppression, but their credit card statements.

That's yer ackcheral facts.

Unlike the Supreme Court decision, which is apparently not precedent. The Supreme Court !😁

All so wonderfully delusional.
Just shows how some men being told they have no right to observe girls and women undressing has unleashed a stream of incontinent verbiage to try to persuade women otherwise.

And they're all over FWR. They say God loves a trier - suppose someone has to.

boxuponbox · 21/01/2026 09:25

Gretel346 · 21/01/2026 08:13

That's because you aren't following the thread. I'll break it down for you.

Sex typical behavioural characteristics: Fact
Sex typical physical characteristics: Fact

The sex and individual identifies with more depends on which one of the above their personal subjective values relate to.

No it you are having demonstrating the links you are claiming exist.

You have to demonstrate why not having a ‘sex typical behaviour’ means you are not really a man or woman, in society.

One can self determine however one feels. But to expect society to accept that requires hard evidence. Not just individual wishes.

Datun · 21/01/2026 09:41

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/01/2026 09:22

All so wonderfully delusional.
Just shows how some men being told they have no right to observe girls and women undressing has unleashed a stream of incontinent verbiage to try to persuade women otherwise.

And they're all over FWR. They say God loves a trier - suppose someone has to.

incontinent verbiage.

I love that your sex is self-determined based on your typical sex-specific hobbies, but there's no definition of sex. So whose hobbies are they??

I mean, if it's going to come down to categories based on individual interests, hobbies and jobs, we're gonna need a bigger spreadsheet.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/01/2026 09:45

Gretel346 · 21/01/2026 07:05

Excellent. Your'e almost there in that you get to decide what qualifies as a man or woman to you.

Edited

Hey! How's it going? Welcome to FWR.

As a newbie you won't know this but there was a guy round here a while back used to make the exact same arguments. When I have time I'll post a link to some of his threads. It will save you a lot of time to read them first and see the counterarguments that have already been made so you can make new points that take them into account. Otherwise, all you'll get from this thread is those exact same arguments again. New for you maybe, but kind of a done deal for those of us with more knowledge of the topic.

In the meantime, here's some starting points for ya:

If being a "man" or a "woman" is a personal determination, why are woman-only (and to a lesser extent, man-only) spaces and protections necessary? What common experiences do they support? Indeed, why even have different groups in the first place? Would it not be better to do away with this division of identity altogether, or consider it a consumerist choice more akin to which football team one supports (for those that care)?

The offending, and especially sexual and violent offending, differences between men and women are stark. Are you suggesting men are people who knowingly identify themselves as more violent and sexually aggressive? If so, should identifying as a man not be a red flag in and of itself? Should we not be subjecting all people who identify as men to preventative therapy?

And finally,

Regardless of gender identity and self definition, and notwithstanding the small number of humans with visually ambiguous sex characteristics at birth, humans are undeniably a sexually (in the reproductive meaning if the word) dimorphic species: two non-overlappong sexes, with physical and reproductive differences between them. Bimodal distribution of other sex differentiatiors sure, but not of the core sex itself. And well over 99% of humans are accurately identified as one reproductive class or the other at birth, and their sex has both physical and social consequences for them.

In the case of those of us who are female (in the purely biological sense), this has been at some points in time, and still is in some places, as stark as legally defining us as property and denying us agency, autonomy and access to political, economic or cultural power , socially making us responsible for our own rapes, and so on. And even in societies where on paper these oppression no longer exist, nevertheless the social, cultural and structural mores formed under them persist and continue to disadvantage us relative to those born male.

So if, as you posit, self identity should be the measure of man or woman based simply on how one feels likes and dislikes align to social expectations of those words , surely those of us who are of the female biological sex and sufer the consequences have the right to also identity ourselves as a meaningful group because of our shared biology and history? To tell the stories of our physical and social experiences rooted in and coloured by that biology, and to politicise and organise ourselves and demand social, legal and political support to deal with the social and physical consequences of that biology?

And, given that to deny us this moral right is as unjustifiable as telling people they must not organise by race or sexuality to describe common experiences and where necessary fight against prejudice, is it not morally unjustifiable to deny us the name "woman" given that it was the name that has always referred to us, the name under which our oppression was enacted and justified, and the name that connects us to our history and makes sense of the challenges we face today?

The self identity underlying your concept of "woman" may be valid, but the use of that particular word, one that comes with millenia of the history of an oppressed people who have existed over the full diversity of human history and cultures and who actually have very little in common with the narrow set of personality traits you consider meaningfully "woman's", is not.

Arran2024 · 21/01/2026 09:49

Gretel346 · 21/01/2026 05:31

You could say the same about reproductive characteristics defining social roles & norms. Ultimately, true liberty is about self determination.

You mean men getting into the ladies, right?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/01/2026 10:12

Mochudubh · 21/01/2026 08:42

Gretel seems to be suggesting that Gender Identity is based on some sort of basket of traits, a bit like the Consumer Price Index.

How do we pick which traits go into the basket and how do we weight them?

Liking footy +1
Liking pink -1

It's the Barbie >>> GI Joe continuum in another guise isn't it?

I think you've sliced the Gordonian Knot here!!!

Since determing sex, something humanity did with 99% plus accuracy since before we could write, or probably even speak, is something the most technologically and advanced human society suddenly inexplicably finds itself unable to do, clearly the government needs to publish the monthly official Gender Identity Index, a basket of sexist stereotypes carefully selected and weighted by the ONS.

Then we can all self identify against a common objective scale, knowing our definitions will line up. We can benchmark ourselves and publish our exact gender rating on our social media and dating accounts in lieu of the M/F marker and report it to our employers for DEI monitoring.

Every month the news would announce changes to the basket and we can all review and if necessary adjust our gender identity in line.

Perfect! 😂

SnowflakeSmasher86 · 21/01/2026 10:13

This derailing is so typical of them though. Starts off as a positive post, that we all nod our heads and think ‘yes, nailed it’ and then along comes a TRA waffling on about gender feelz and how ‘you just know’ as if it’s some sort of science, peppered with “I’ll break it down for you” like WE are the ones who are confused Confused

If it weren’t so predictable and fucking annoying it would actually be impressive how they can waltz in and get everyone replying to them, twisting themselves into knots trying to play chess with this pigeon. Their posts make no sense, contradict themselves and ignore legal rulings as irrelevant, but somehow we’re still debating the absolute drivel they’re spouting as it if had any merit.

So glad the wheels are finally coming off this thing, thanks to all the clever and reasonable women (and a few men) who have been able to relentlessly bat away the bullshit that this batshit ideology keeps throwing at us.

rurbane · 21/01/2026 10:28

FlirtsWithRhinos You put into words how I feel. Thank you.

Daisychain700 · 21/01/2026 10:47

So if the gender war didn’t come from the streets where did it come from?
Wheres did the money come from to lobby political groups to push this agenda and open up these gender clinics worldwide?
As I learned here a while back, the big pharmaceutical companies have invested a lot in this and have reaped big rewards in creating all these new patients dependent on lifelong medication. Behind all the #bekind stuff is this and it’s a despicable way to make money and we should all stop going along with it.

Daisychain700 · 21/01/2026 11:08

I don’t have the figures but I remember seeing the comment on another thread that Obama’s campaign was heavily funded by pharmaceutical companies which stipulated he had to push the trans agenda when in office. In the U.K. I can’t recall exactly the comment about all parties but remember the major donor of the Lib Dems was a pharmaceutical company pushing the trans agenda.
I wonder what America would look like if Obama has been able to raise funds from a different source that didn’t have this agenda. Now America is so divided between right and left as the trans agenda has completely alienated the Christian voters from the Democrat party and Trump has taken full advantage of that. Now both sides feel they have the moral high ground and hate each other, at least that’s what it looks like from here. I hope in the U.K. we don’t end up so divided. There is a hope of this if institutions just follow the Supreme Court ruling on sex segregation of public spaces, that keeps society safe and functioning.

Shedmistress · 21/01/2026 11:11

Daisychain700 · 21/01/2026 10:47

So if the gender war didn’t come from the streets where did it come from?
Wheres did the money come from to lobby political groups to push this agenda and open up these gender clinics worldwide?
As I learned here a while back, the big pharmaceutical companies have invested a lot in this and have reaped big rewards in creating all these new patients dependent on lifelong medication. Behind all the #bekind stuff is this and it’s a despicable way to make money and we should all stop going along with it.

It is a circular economy for these guys. Jennifer Bilek has done a fair amount of the 'follow the money' work already.

Mochudubh · 21/01/2026 11:33

@FlirtsWithRhinos That's exactly what I was trying to get at but you have articulated it so much better. 🎩

Tadpolesinponds · 21/01/2026 12:42

@Gretel346 is talking about personality. But sex isn't about personality, it's about bodies.
So if @Gretel346 likes we can invent 3 new categories of people - let's call them "fluffy people", "hard people" and "neither of the above people" - or we can have a vote on what to call them. And we can continue to call people with XX chromosomes (in the detail we can define it to include people with DSDs) women and people with XY chromosomes men, with each of those having their own single sex changing rooms, etc. Women are women but any woman can identify as a hard person if she wants, even though most women may decide to identify as a fluffy person. If I think you're a hard man but you identify as a fluffy man - no great harm done.
This would be different from gender, because gender is about how society sees and treats those it sees as women (nearly always because they actually are women) and those it sees as men. The new fluffy and hard system would be based on how we self-identify, not on how society sees us. So it would cater much better for men who have beards but like kittens and identify as fluffy.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/01/2026 13:00

I think the fascinating thing about genderists is that although they have no stable, coherent definition of Man and Woman, they nevertheless cling on to the social convention that [most] people are still men or women, and that men and women do still need separate spaces or provisions sometimes, but that one self identifies into these "safe spaces" based on nothing more than ones self image and ones honesty.

Just imagine instead of men and women's toilets/changing rooms/refuges, the signs on the doors said "people who are a physical and sexual threat to others" and "people who are not a physical and sexual threat to others".

And society said "ok everyone, no rules here, you know yourself better than we do so please just go through the door that you think fits you best. We trust you to be honest, and we trust you to assess yourself objectively versus other people who you have never met and the inner workings of whose minds you in reality have no idea about. Just don't base it on stereotypes, ok?".

I mean, it's so obviously, hilariously, heartbreakingly flawed, right?

And yet, as soon as the same doors are labelled "Men" and "Women" instead, even though we are still talking about exactly the same meanings and process as far as genderists are concerned, they have rock solid confidence that it's all going to work just perfectly 😂

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 21/01/2026 13:09

But it's all just special pleading and wangling to achieve the desired goal.

Which is a woman-only space, full of women in a state of undress, in which a man has the desired experience of being somewhere no other man is permitted, granted the secret intimate presence of women in a state of undress around them, and has quite possibly the sexual arousal of perceiving themselves as a woman in a woman's space doing woman things with other women. Or, as I posted on another thread, the arousal of transgressing and harassing women in a way that women aren't allowed to resist. https://x.com/marycatedelvey/status/1806830538474553616

And the issue is women being permitted any space in which to woman away without a man having access and dominion. The words are meaningless, it's only about getting policy makers to believe enough bollocks to permit the actions and destroy the rights of women and homosexuals in law to enable them.

Still not sure of the point of coming on to a women's rights forum and trying to talk the turkeys into enthusiastic submission to the Christmas Dinner menu, despite that the law protecting women's single sex spaces and definition in law has just been confirmed. So what on earth is supposed to be the outcome? Beyond annoying women?

MaryCate Delvey (@marycatedelvey) on X

WOW!! We have reached PART 40 of LISTEN TO TRANS PEOPLE!! “They just want to pee” — you sure about that?

https://x.com/marycatedelvey/status/1806830538474553616

Beowulfa · 21/01/2026 13:11

Boredoflunch1 · 21/01/2026 07:48

How do you legislate for something that is "up to the individual and their personal feelings"?

Miss, Miss, I know this one!

The legislation favours the individuals with cocks and balls.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 21/01/2026 13:15

A couple of centuries back women could be beaten or put in the stocks or worse for insulting a man's manhood.

These days its insulting his womanhood that gets you battered.

Nothing changes. Including everyone in the situation knowing exactly what sex they are, because that binary confirms who has the power to batter, and who gets battered. Who controls other people's speech and behaviour, and who'd bloody well better be controlled and submissive or else.

boxuponbox · 21/01/2026 13:17

GaIadriel · 21/01/2026 07:52

I think identity politics and intersectionality played a part too. Self expression and acceptance seem to trump almost everything. It's even evident in the rhetoric - 'bringing your whore self to work' etc.

well under this doctrine you can take your whore self to work.

It would be slur shaming to say you can’t.

😁