"A woman who is trans"

[AllThisFuss]

I've been noticing this terminology creeping in. Just thought I might highlight it, so we can keep up to date with their ever-changing attempts to control language and muddy the waters. Have you seen any in the wild?

IndiaWilloughby
‪@indiawilloughby.bsky.social‬
Not a mention of the woman who’s trans, who did nothing wrong. This ruling is in direct conflict with the Gender Recognition Act. How is this happening? It is wrong on every level, and will be used to push trans people even further out of society and into danger

Oh for goodness sake.

WHY DO YOU THINK THOSE POSTERS WERE ALARMED AND UPSET ABOUT A MIDWIFE POTENTIALLY BEING A MAN IN THE FIRST PLACE?

I cannot use a space where a man is. I can't. I'm not explaining to you why, it's none of your business and you wouldn't care anyway. I do not want to have to worry when I consent as to whether or not the person saying they're a woman is trying to deceive me for their own jollies.

I do not care how you feel about this - you don't care how I feel
I do not care about your 'gender journey'
I do not want to play games around 'can I deceive you into taking your clothes off around me when you wouldn't consent to it if you knew'. Frankly you've proved by this point you care so little about consent tand women that you're looking thoroughly dodgy and unsafe to be around anyway.

I don't consent. I'm as entitled to a usable space as you are. It is only usable if you're not in it. You are not the only important person in the world.

And the fact that none of the famous transwomen pass despite some being actual models whose image depends on their supposed womanliness and who have access to far more resources that the average trans in the street.

It would appear that all these passing transwomen go to another school and we don't know them.

What? So based on a photo?

No. All through the answers to your posts people have stated that meeting someone in real life is very different to seeing a photo and judging. Yes, many times people can tell just from a photo, however, there is a much higher success rate if people are interacting with that person.

I really think you need to stop believing misinformation.

We've had men come on here before and assert that nobody knows they are men and everyone believes they are women, and then when we've seen the photos its been very, very obvious that said men were either heavily deluded or deliberately trolling.

No male person is able to copy a female gait. No male person is able to disguise all their male body cues.

There will be some female people in the world that can tell very reliably with interaction, that someone is a male person. Male body cues are rarely fully disguised, even with the best facial surgery to be paid for.

Plus, as male people age any surgery or hormone treatment will not be able to continue to disguise those male body cues. Of course, some male people will attempt to have more surgery, but again, there are skeletal cues that cannot be changed or disguised 100%.

The goalposts are always moving. First it’s we can always tell, and then when you get it wrong you pivot to the in person talking point.

And let's not forget that male social conditioning that comes through in every post.

A bright beacon.

No. I'm asking you to evidence your claim.

I'm also asking you to give us an example of a passing transwoman in the public eye, which should be a piece of cake after everything you've said.

But ... crickets from you on that one

No. You are now being dishonest.

Some people might be able to always recognise a male person in real life. You are trying to claim that someone has said they can always tell who is a male person in photographs which may or may not be clear and of an entire body.

The goalposts are not 'always moving'. You are now using cognitive distortions such as misrepresenting people's arguments now though.

My goalposts haven’t moved once.

I’ve asked the same questions multiple times.

you haven’t answered.

your sympathy for what I disclosed was massive as well so thanks for that.

Why do you think your internal feelings trump my sex-based rights?

"A potential thread" is identifying as "plenty of threads", is it?

Do please supply the links to all these "plenty of threads". Because I'm sure you can 🤔

@ThatOpalTurtle I dont understand why you have become all argumentative again.

yesterday you Conceded pretty much everything.

The 'you might not be able to tell' thing is a big fat lever for all the very man where it's bleeding obvious. There's not going to be a 'passing' committee, and men wouldn't respect it anyway. If it's the perfectly passing and nobody knows ones, it's Izzard and Bryson and any other man who chooses.

The answer is no.

And ffs what is the matter with you that you think it's fine to do this to women if you might be able to deceive them into uninformed consent? Good grief how you despise women.

It's a very good point that men calling themselves women often point to times women have been mistakenly considered male and suggest this means that men pretending to be women often pass.

It is vanishingly rare for men to be mistaken for women.

I hadn't noticed that switcheroo before.

Passing isn't a yes/no done deal. Just as individuals are better or worse at facial recognition, they are better or worse at recognising sex. You can pass with one and not with another.
It's not even a done deal when it comes to the same individual's perceptions. I can testify to that. Successive brief encounters with a local transwoman started with not noticing, then it was "I wonder", then "yes, definitely". My assessment was confirmed (without my asking) by somebody who knew them. I have no idea whether they know that I know; I have never said anything to them about it one way or the other.

@ThatOpalTurtle, perhaps you could read the following, about the problem with the idea of “men who pass as women” using women’s spaces:

Think about that for a moment, this idea of a man who is “visually and for all practical purposes indistinguishable” from a woman. Lots of women have suffered male violence, and some of those are permanently traumatised to the point that if they are surprised by a man in a supposedly female-only space, they will be retraumatised. These women may need domestic violence shelters and rape crisis services at certain times, but they don’t engage with the world solely as rape or domestic violence survivors. They have ordinary lives, too. They use public toilets, hospitals, gyms; they visit pubs, galleries, cafés, museums, theatres. They don’t wear a special badge or uniform so that we can identify them and make sure we cater for their needs. We don’t know who they are.

Obviously it’s not acceptable to say to such women “You can’t have any single-sex spaces”. But is it better to say “You can have single-sex spaces, mostly. Don’t worry: we’ll only let men use them if they look so much like women that you won’t be able to tell that they’re men.”

Think about that. Think about its power to undermine the certainty of an already traumatised woman that the woman she is dealing with at any given moment is truly a woman. If you’re not shocked by the sadistic, gas-lighting cruelty of that, you’re not doing the thinking bit right. Think harder. Think about it until you are shocked.

From here:

https://www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2024/11/06/sex-peanuts-and-statutory-interpretation/

Cognitive dissonance is both a drug and a drag.
Maybe I shouldn't admit it here, but a few years ago I thought I'd relent to the trans narrative, why shouldn't I JustBeKind.
For 5 minutes I felt virtuous and selfless.
Maybe I'd have posted on here had I been a member.
Soon after that, the cognitive dissonance started, the mental stress of leaving a square peg jammed in a round hole.
Followed by a very strong endorphin reaction.
And back to "normal service resumed", chiding myself for letting myself down for ditching critical thinking skills for simple feel good intentions.
I realized then and there, I'd never again take the path of least resistance.
Maybe this individual is similarly distracted?

Interesting 1984

Whether or not they must or can … do you think they should?

That makes sense to me. It felt good to admit to the doubts I have about my position. I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing and I honestly can’t disagree with the core GC position that you can’t change biological sex. But if I doubt my position, where does that leave me?

How can you think you’re doing the right thing when you’re breaking the law?

when you’re disregarding women’s consent?

how. Seriously how?

I don't think it leaves us in a difficult position to say we've transitioned but we're still males? We've done things that made our bodies more comfortable for us, but that didn't change our sex? I mean, I don't know about you but the consent form I signed for hormone treatment literally made me acknowledge that.

Unless you're saying you feel that somehow your gender dysphoria requires you to go in women's spaces specifically? Mine certainly doesn't? It's more about my body and perhaps not being in the men's for me?

@TroubledWatersTW has advised you on the compromises you need to make, if you have any modicum of respect for the safety, privacy and dignity of unconsenting women and girls. You now know that female people aren't your human shields, objects or non-playable characters and that our spaces are not a free-for all for males of any kind, even males who make the conscious decision to reject their natural bodies via extreme body modifications. Now you need to act accordingly.

EDIT: Sorry, I unwittingly cross-posted with you TWTW!

I thought I did the right thing by waiting to use spaces until I was late in my transition when I had seen significant changes. You will never agree I did the right thing, but I did see the potential to cause alarm and took steps to minimise others discomfort