Well this was totally predictable

[OverlyFragrant]

Woman identifying as a man is 'raped in all-male psychiatric ward' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15461027/Transgender-man-raped-male-psychiatric-hospital-ward-court-hears.html?ito=native_share_article-bottom

Shame on these men and shame on the NHS for placing this poor women directly in the hands of predators.

I wasn't meaning it to be answered. It was a rhetorical question.

You missed the fourth, and IMO most likely, scenario:
d) "I can see she's a woman, but she says she's a man, and if I go against the policy and she complains, I'll get disciplined and fired".

Aka people weighing up the risk to their jobs from safeguarding her versus the risk to her from not safeguarding her, and choosing their jobs because a clear conscience doesn't pay the rent.

Ah, as in the sarcastic form of "transactivists keep saying that people can't tell, but they can".

Do we know which trust? Because Mumsnetters did an EDI audit of every NHS trust recently...

Agreed.

I recall that when my husband had his triple bypass, both Intensive Care and the High Dependency Unit were mixed sex.

Intensive care, and I think HDU, is except from the single sex ward regulations because patients aren't mobile or using loos and showers, because staffing ratios are much higher so they're never unobserved, and because both the staff and equipment are too specialist to make it feasible to double up.

There's suddenly been an uptick in unfamilar usernames using transactivist posting styles in FWR, either posting JAQ-off threads or posting in existing threads about relatively trivial matters, like pronouns at work or butch-looking women being challenged in the loos.

I wonder what they are trying to distract us from?

I wonder which thread they are trying to push down the Active list and off FWR's first page?

@OverlyFragrant May I suggest that you ask MNHQ to change the thread title to something like "Trans-identifying woman raped on men's psych ward" so that it's obvious what it's about?

As far as I'm aware there are still mixed psychiatric wards.

I've always thought this was dangerous for female patients.

Yes, it is.

I'd also expect a mixed-sex ward to be designed differently from a single sex ward, for example by have separate male and female sleeping areas with the staff desks between the two.

This was supposed to be a male-only ward.

Yes, that's what I thought - the patients in there were unable to move around and there were stringent controls on visitors.

Psychiatry has not somehow got caught up in the transgender politics - it is, and has always been, a huge part in creating the whole issue. It is psychiatrists who assess people and make the decision to refer them on for surgery. It is psychiatry that tells men they're really women and women they're really men. NHS psychiatry has huge power in this. Imagine - an NHS psychiatrist telling an adolescent who feels they're uncomfortable with their sexuality and/or their body, that this is real when it's the very definition of a delusion.

Detentions are easily enacted and have been rising for years. The staff are obsessed with dangerousness. I was detained after being beaten up and my mother said I'd threatened my brother with a knife. These unsubstantiated allegations are accepted without evidence routinely.

Psychiatric wards have always been dangerous places and sexual assaults are common. There has even been gang rape. Sky News and the Independent did some excellent investigation of this a couple of years ago. Sometimes staff are the perpetrators. The female deputy warden of a psychiatric hostel I was in was abusing some of the under age residents and an RMN was raping a girl in a psychiatric hospital. In both places, girls were selling sex on the street. This was all done openly. So whilst these alleged rapes of a woman on a men's ward is dreadful, it's not surprising to some of us.

You're right of course that a woman can't legally be a rapist but a woman can still be prosecuted and convicted of rape if she helps an offender. From the CPS website:

"Legally, a person without a penis cannot commit rape, but a female may be guilty of rape if they assist a male perpetrator in an attack."

These prosecutions of women for rape are very rare. I recall a woman convicted of rape because she acted as look-out for men who raped a woman on a canal towpath.

There are lots of questions on Reddit from younger transgender people who are expecting to be an inpatient on a mental health unit, asking if they will be put on the ward aligned with their chosen gender, rather than their sex. The whole experience is fraught with anxiety, the dysphoria is the main concern, not bodily safety, or the dignity of other patients.
Considering the amount transphobic events are clung on to and endlessly referenced, you’d think the rape of a trans person would be a crime to be widely condemned and deplored. It’s radio silence in trans land. Probably because it’s a woman getting raped and that’s a reasonable cost of business to them.

This is another example where tip toeing around a polite social nicety of going along with someone’s delusion is not kind, it’s dangerous.

It is South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust. It was audited by us and is typical of mental health trusts - see my earlier post.

Heartbreaking. These kids need help. And actually enraging, because the NHS have created this stupid ass situation where they endanger vulnerable people.

There was at one point a female in men's prison in Scotland. Unless it was a typo, which is possible.

In case anyone forgot Scotland is mad.

The biggest danger here being the NHS affirmation of delusions and ignoring the mental health elephant in the room.

Also, playing devils advocate, these are men with mental health issues on lots and lots of drugs. Putting a vulnerable woman in with them is like leaving a bottle of whiskey on the table. These aren’t nice men, I’m not excusing them, but the reason they are sectioned is because they are not safe outside in the world but they also need protecting from their own worst impulses. That’s why the drugs cupboard has a lock on it.

They are mentally ill men.

Yes. They are. Both men and mentally ill.

They are sectioned because they are ill. Are you saying ill people are not nice? Some might be lovely but their illness means they want to kill themselves..

I think the 4th reason applies often. Be kind, treat them as they say they are or face transphobia accusations

I really hope the NHS is prosecuted for this, and individual senior staff members lose their jobs. Until this happens, nothing will change.

As PP have said, we only know about this because of the court case. There will be so many more women abused in this way, I am sure (some posters giving examples upthread).

All the NHS policies pretty much saying men's feelings come first, no matter how creepy or criminal, this is how it ends. And the fact is we don't know how many rapes there are as a result of these polices because we know they're covering it up.

The NHS policies make this the most likely IMO. They deliberately set up situations where safeguarding comes last.

Not be kind (it is not kind to put a woman in a secure male psychiatric ward), you mean be submissive and do what they say.