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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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9
Brefugee · 14/01/2026 13:59

maybe if you are taller your synapses just blast must mansplain bollocks on mumsnet or something

nicepotoftea · 14/01/2026 13:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I think it's the suggestion that short people have inferior genes that is raising eyebrows.

Where does this leave Kylie Minogue?

JamieCannister · 14/01/2026 14:00

Hoardasurass · 14/01/2026 13:58

Really just stop now you're just digging yourself a deeper hole

Genuinely, I would love to know what I am missing, because nothing I have read above is convincing me that I am in any way wrong.

solerolover · 14/01/2026 14:03

Mansplaining? Eugenics? And on a feminist discussion board no less? This thread has turned into an absolute steaming pile of mess.

JamieCannister · 14/01/2026 14:04

solerolover · 14/01/2026 14:03

Mansplaining? Eugenics? And on a feminist discussion board no less? This thread has turned into an absolute steaming pile of mess.

Edited

Nothing I have said has anything to do with eugenics.

Talking about correlations is not eugenics.

ArabellaScott · 14/01/2026 14:06

Can we return to the subject of the thread.

Nonsense theories are irrelevant derails that don't need to be indulged.

Is this reported anywhere other than the Mail, does anyone know?

Hoardasurass · 14/01/2026 14:08

JamieCannister · 14/01/2026 13:43

google ai - what studies correlate height and mental health?

Studies indicate a complex correlation between height and mental health, with
taller individuals generally reporting better mental health and self-esteem, while height dissatisfaction (feeling too short or too tall) is strongly linked to various psychological problems, including loneliness, social anxiety, and depression

We know that at the Tavistock most had several MH co-morbidities.

I posed the theory (a guess based on anecdata) that TIFs are shorter than the averge woman.

I stand by my guess that if TIFs are shorter than the averge woman it is partly due to women who are taller and stronger with better mental health are more likely not to end up as TIFs than women who are shorter and weaker and with worse mental health.

Obviously correlations say nothing about exceptions.

Obviously puberty blockers might be a big factor (but then again how many get them?)

I honestly thought this board was full of left-leaning be-kind types who have learnt over the last 5 or 10 years that a F/T be kind position is not kind, it leads to horrors like metally ill women being raped on male hospital wards. I thought the sorts of sex realist people on here were increasingly realizing that the truth matters and everything that is good follows from the truth and not lies.

I thought we were past living in a world where one can't say "Muslim Pakistani men are more likely to be involved in rape gangs than other men in the UK" or "knife crime is a particular problem amongst black boys - both as victims and perpetrators". I thought we were past living in a world where we had to pretend that we would not choose our son to be a 6 ft athlete with a 130 IQ and positive attitude, in preference to him being 5'3", 85 IQ and depressed.

Well your thoughts show that you know nothing about us and perhaps you should take your racist, sexist, incel adjacent bs elsewhere

Beowulfa · 14/01/2026 14:09

JamieCannister · 14/01/2026 14:00

Genuinely, I would love to know what I am missing, because nothing I have read above is convincing me that I am in any way wrong.

You are linking height with strength and better mental health, and ascribing moral values to genes (which are just coding instructions to make a specific protein).

Horseracing is on the telly most Saturday afternoons if you want to see some really strong short people doing a physically demanding and dangerous job.

If you're talking about an outdoorsy lifestyle and social sports helping kids with their mental health, then I agree.

Brefugee · 14/01/2026 14:09

JamieCannister · 14/01/2026 14:04

Nothing I have said has anything to do with eugenics.

Talking about correlations is not eugenics.

you very very clearly (although the first post has been deleted i think) talked about eugenics.

Just because you didn't use the word, you actually went there. We see you.

AnSolas · 14/01/2026 14:10

JamieCannister · 14/01/2026 14:00

Genuinely, I would love to know what I am missing, because nothing I have read above is convincing me that I am in any way wrong.

You are missing the fact that
• a real woman has had to sit in a court room and
• explain to the court how she was placed in a locked unit with men and
• how the people who were paid to keep her safe failed to do that and
• that she was subjected to a sexual assault.

You choosing to explore your half thoughout theory on this thread reads as you being distastefully callous when you say you do not understand and are not researching the policy which resulted in her being put at risk.

solerolover · 14/01/2026 14:14

Hoardasurass · 14/01/2026 13:45

No its not perfectly possible that a woman decided to take out her upset over being bullied by colleagues and bosses by intentionally setting an innocent vulnerable woman up to be raped women don't behave like that.
@JamieCannister as you are a man you clearly failed to understand the way women think and act are completely different to men. Whilst a nasty rapey man might think that its OK to do that to a woman women don't.
You need to stop trying to mansplain womens thought processes to us and listen to what we are saying, which is women don't behave in the way you are suggesting

You need to stop trying to mansplain womens thought processes to us and listen to what we are saying, which is women don't behave in the way you are suggesting
Absolutely agree. My jaw actually dropped reading that post, how does one read a horrific story like this and even begin to come to that kind of conclusion? It's really, really bizarre and callous, even moreso when @JamieCannister is actually doubling down on this rubbish. An ally to women simply wouldn't behave like that.

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2026 14:22

The one thing I would say about being a petite woman is it makes you EVERYONE'S punching bag in the sense that you get infantilised massively and patronised as part of that.

I've always found that not only do I have to hold my own but I really have to fight my corner to even get listened too. This has been taken as aggression at times. It's not. It's just 'fucking well listen to me you prick'.

Sadly this applies to women as well as men. Ultimately it comes down to the issue of it being easier to challenge a petite woman than a six foot great hulking man or even an average size woman.

Still getting IDed for alcohol at 35 is kinda tiresome whilst also being given shit that you should be happy and grateful for it. No you have eyes, perhaps use them; as much as I like the compliment you must be fucking blind to think I'm 17 or even 24.

It is about power and control.

And this is also what I say about trans. The WHOLE thing is about power and control.

It's not about genes or intelligence. It's very much about power.

Ihatetomatoes · 14/01/2026 14:32

RoyalCorgi · 14/01/2026 10:37

Misgendering shows the total lack of respect for the victim. No. So-called "misgendering" is what caused this mess in the first place. You cannot describe the facts of this case correctly without stating that the victim is female. Anything else shows a total lack of respect for her in this situation.

Yes. We need to be able to say the facts of the case that a vulnerable, mentally unwell woman was placed on a secure psychiatric ward with violent, mentally unstable men. Referring to her as "he" or "they" obfuscates the reality both of what happened to her and the sheer cruelty of the people who made the decision to put her there.

100% the victim is female who identifies as a man. A very vulnerable female at that, having been raped.

To understand the crime you need to use biological sex. The victim female was raped by men because THEY KNEW she was female despite all the 'respect what the victim wants to be called'.

ProfessorBinturong · 14/01/2026 14:50

Without engaging in detail with the not-even-wrong hole digging, a quick reminder that:

The correct scientific term for 'a guess based on anecdata' is not 'theory' but 'wild speculation'.

Correlation =/= causation. Especially when you've lumped multiple things together.

Mental health issues are many and various, not all one homogeneous thing.

'Tables are often made of wood' does not mean that all (or even most) wooden things are tables.

AI tells you what you want to hear, not what is true. Especially when given shit or leading prompts.

An important rule of AI is: don't use it if you're too dim/uninformed on the topic to recognise that it hasn't even answered your question (whether wrongly or correctly).

Shortshriftandlethal · 14/01/2026 15:27

RareGoalsVerge · 14/01/2026 12:55

@JamieCannister I would be cautious about using the word "Better" regarding genes. Genes may make a particular individual more suited or less suited to particular environments and activities. However, the environments and activities that individuals have to survive or wish to excel in are shaped and chosen by a patriarchal capitalist culture so value judgements like "better" aligns you with endorsing the validity of that culture.

Edited

It could well be that those dominant cultures that persist do so because they are inherently stronger or more well adapted to human society and human nature?

ArabellaScott · 14/01/2026 15:32

spannasaurus · 14/01/2026 14:11

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2157489/trans-raped-male-hospital-ward

It's been reported by the Express but I haven't come across any others

Thanks. Its a horrific story, and I'm surprised its not being widely reported.

Mental health services are in a frightening state - I very much hope the victim has been able to access the proper support.

TheKeatingFive · 14/01/2026 15:34

ArabellaScott · 14/01/2026 15:32

Thanks. Its a horrific story, and I'm surprised its not being widely reported.

Mental health services are in a frightening state - I very much hope the victim has been able to access the proper support.

Are you really surprised?

They don't want this kind of thing out there, now do they?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 14/01/2026 15:37

TheKeatingFive · 14/01/2026 15:34

Are you really surprised?

They don't want this kind of thing out there, now do they?

Yes sadly I agree

I can't see the BBC or The Guardian being interested in publishing

the times and telegraph might pick it up

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2026 15:50

ArabellaScott · 14/01/2026 15:32

Thanks. Its a horrific story, and I'm surprised its not being widely reported.

Mental health services are in a frightening state - I very much hope the victim has been able to access the proper support.

The victim hasn't been criminalised and the police called due to a lack of out of hours mental health services.

RoyalCorgi · 14/01/2026 15:52

I suppose if the thread hadn't taken a weird turn, we'd have all just sat around agreeing with each other.

It's an interesting, if terrible story, because it illustrates an aspect of gender ideology that people rarely talk about. We can - and do - argue endlessly about whether allowing trans women in women's spaces (changing rooms, prisons etc) poses either a safety or privacy risk to women. We say they do, which is obviously true, and they say they don't. All the campaigning momentum on the trans side is around allowing men to invade women's spaces - see eg the Unison demo last week.

Nobody is pushing to allow trans men into women's spaces. That's because this is a men's rights movement, and it's all about allowing men to invade women's space. But if you put trans women (men) into women's spaces, then it follows that you have to put trans men (women) into men's spaces. The risk is not to the men in those spaces, but to the women using them. And it's a bigger risk. It's the difference between putting a wolf in a flock of sheep, and putting a single sheep in a pack of wolves.

The sad thing is, hardly anyone cares. The trans activists fighting to allow men in women's spaces don't care about what happens to trans men, and as feminists, we don't usually campaign to protect trans men, mostly because they don't want us to. So this particularly vulnerable group has no one looking out for them, yet they may turn out to be the biggest victims of this ideology.

MeltedSunshine · 14/01/2026 16:01

Theeyeballsinthesky · 14/01/2026 15:37

Yes sadly I agree

I can't see the BBC or The Guardian being interested in publishing

the times and telegraph might pick it up

It is a question of spin. BBC or Guardian would frame is as ‘Trans patient suffers violent transphobic attack in hospital’

borntobequiet · 14/01/2026 16:10

It's an interesting, if terrible story, because it illustrates an aspect of gender ideology that people rarely talk about.

A good point, especially when the thing that does get talked about is horrid terfy women being mean to TIFs or individuals who look as though they might be male bodied and telling them to leave women’s toilets and changing rooms. So a smokescreen for allowing TIMs into women’s spaces.

Didactylos · 14/01/2026 16:43

I feel so angry and sorry for the poor gender fluid/trans identifying female patient who was utterly vulnerable in this situation.

This is not her fault - She's likely to had her dysphoria and identity crisis validated, her unreality and delusions about her gender supported and reified, and been encouraged to think her survival and mental wellbeing depends on the whole world supporting her in this world view. Her gender identity has been recorded and used to inform her care and placement. No other delusion of self identity is given this treatment.

Think about that for a minute - the system disbelieves and will challenge all delusions apart from those related to gender identity/sex. If this patient had expressed a belief she should be an amputee, or had superpowers, was the reincarnation of Cleopatra, the pope, the second coming, a covert spy operative, pregnant with a demon or poisoned by the mafia - any other sign of disordered thinking that is objectively untrue, then this would be taken as an indication that she needs help and yes, challenged. There would be attempts made to keep her and others safe from potentially dangerous actions due to her disordered thinking, and to try and return her to reality, convince her she was unable to walk on water, was not being sent alien messages, or whatever delusion was endangering her. But not if she declares the magic words 'I identify as x gender'

Despite validation this poor woman was clearly mentally unwell enough to need admission to a psychiatric ward - but those treating her were so focused on supporting her self declared gender identity that they ignored the reality of the patients physical body and the risks to her in being placed in a male ward. A system has been created where the insistence that one particular strand of disordered thinking is somehow to be supported as an innate truth and any form of gender self expression framed as a human right, and the staff upheld this.

They literally served a mentally unwell female patient requiring inpatient psychiatric help up to a ward of seriously mentally ill and in this case predatory men, apparently without consideration of vulnerability, safeguarding or even planning and handover that meant staff knew her situation and could care for her adequately - and the predictable sexual assault was nearly immediate. I don't know if these men were equally likely to rape in another situation, or whether their behavior was influenced by their mental illness (acute symptoms, disinhibition) but the outcome and danger to the female patient was predictable.

Despite their serious mental health problems it appears that the men on the ward were not fooled by the double think and mantras (transmen are men) that have numbed the mental health professionals and prevented patient centered thinking that would have prioritized her physical protection over validation.
Its another example of how gender identity policies only really service male wants. Its also interesting that there are never any calls for mentally ill men to ' be kind' and accept their female bodied 'brothers' without exception.

Brefugee · 14/01/2026 16:48

I suppose if the thread hadn't taken a weird turn, we'd have all just sat around agreeing with each other.

and that would be a bad thing?

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