What FOI Data Shows About Trans Women in Single Sex Spaces

[Alloallosaurus]

Could somebody much better than I am at demolishing what I'm sure is a pile of nonsense please have a crack at this?

translucent.org.uk/what-foi-data-shows-about-trans-women-in-single-sex-spaces/
Summary
TransLucent's Freedom of Information investigations across 382 public bodies, covering a period of over three years, found only four complaints about trans women using single-sex spaces, conclusively demonstrating that this widely publicised concern as part of the culture war against trans people is not supported by documented evidence from service providers.

For the 900th time.

Women don't complain officially. They don't think they can. They are scared to.

This doesn't mean they aren't complaining. They are complaining in unofficial places.

Like MN.

When there were loads of issues with Bounty it became apparent that despite the hundreds of complaints on MN of some pretty awful experiences, FOI requests found there were no complaints.

This is about how women are invisible to society because authority doesn't work for them and they don't trust authority and feel like they are outside the decision making process and how they feel they are forced to accept things imposed on them.

It's a data collection and failure issue with them picking the source that suits them.

They can fuck off to the far side of fuck and keep fucking off with 'but no one minds'.

I see yet another instant of women now being punished for not complaining after being told not to complain because those male people really are female because they said so, and after seeing what happens to those women and girls who do complain.

What a perfect scenario these men have created. Now they are saying ‘Look, look! None of you complained therefore you all must be happy to accept us male people as being female.’

It is sinister.

Whatever we do we are wrong. Sandie Peggie - only person to complain - they said she was a bigot.
Darlington nurses - loads of complaints - they said the nurses were bullies.
It's fucking shit.

so TRA through stonewall, gendered intelligence, GIRES etc spend a decade ensuring everyone involved in delivering public services through NHS, local government etc is trained to believe that anyone raising such a complaint is an horrendous bigot who should be ignored and if they don't back down quietly, treated appallingly and their complaint dragged through the slowest complaints process known to man

and then acts shocked that having seen this play out many times, women don't complain? Lads you put every effort into making it almost impossible to do

plus I find the idea there were just 4 to be somewhat 🤨 we know from here that more women have complained than that because they've shared their experiences of it

As usual Red's post is spot on.

Women aren't complaining in the same way women don't officially complain in Afghanistan about how their human rights have been removed. Because they're scared.

Doesn't mean the way women are being treated isn't wrong and a pile of misogynistic crap.

Allowing men into women's spaces harms women. There's plenty of evidence. It's being ignored. This is just part of the usual abusive DARVO.

And "formally complained" relies not only on women knowing the right process to make a "formal" complaint (often a very specific, tightly-defined process), but also on them being given access to do so, the organisation actually recording it as such, etc. A woman on a ward complaining to the person in charge about a male on the ward is, I suspect, very heavily dependent on the actions of that person as to whether they can get it registered as an official "complaint". If they just get brushed off with "no, she's a woman", or (incorrect statements that) "it's the law, she has a right to be here" etc, or sympathetic noises but no action, or even accusations of "transphobia", then - no formal complaint! It would likely need the person in charge, who potentially disagrees with her, to say "did you want to make a formal complaint?", and then guide her through the process - how likely is that?!

We know, for example, about the woman who had her operation cancelled due to asking for same-sex intimate care - what's the betting she is NOT included in their report, even though it hit the newspapers and everything? Similarly, I know women in my area have been writing to (and protesting outside) a local leisure centre about their now mixed-sex changing facilities - I'm pretty sure more than 4 women have been involved with that, but bet no-one of them are included either!

We know definitely from the NHS Policy audit that if a woman were to complain about a male (who is trans identifying) in a formal space, they’d be told:
a) that’s a woman there is no man here
b) that’s not acceptable/offer “education”
c) withdraw treatment/throw the woman out
All are accompanied by a side order of shaming (although that’s not official policy!)
At no point would that woman get access to a complaints procedure because they don’t accept complaints from “bigots”
it’s a nonsense to say no complaints = everyone is happy - esp now that there are loads of reports about masked angry protesters who come for anyone with a hint of the (so called) bigotry

Completely agree that women are not complaining officially, so it is going under the radar. I have a colleague who works in a different office to me who is being made to feel extremely uncomfortable by a male colleague using the female toilets. She is terrified to say a thing in case she gets branded a transphobe. Her line manager has pronouns and the progress flag banner in her email signature.

"Helleofabore · Today 08:13

I see yet another instant of women now being punished for not complaining after being told not to complain because those male people really are female because they said so, and after seeing what happens to those women and girls who do complain."

My child's school explicitly told them that calling a transgender student by their actual sex would be transphobia, and would be punished. Then the head smugly reported that there had been no complaints and that their transgender pupils were fully accepted. They even wrote it all into school policy at the time. (No longer on the website, so maybe some sanity has returned.)

This isn't hypothetical. Everyone knew the one transgender male student to be male, as he transitioned in year 12 (and was around 6 foot and bass voiced). Girls shaken up by his presence in the girls' loos knew that they "shouldn't be" and that complaints would be penalised.

Meanwhile the multiple transboys nipped off to the disabled loos, according to DD. What any of this was supposed to be illustrating except for a sexist and ableist hierarchy of wishes, I don't know.

Also anyone who has worked in the field of advocacy knows full well that it is always the least powerless who are also least likely to complain because they're often dependent on a service provider

how many elderly women dependent on carers coming in to ensure they're washed, dressed and fed would complain about a TW providing intimate care? Generally ppl dependent on care services make very few complaints about anything because they fear losing the service

Good points above and yes, I bet women simply can't complain about human right's abuses against them in Afghanistan. The ruling government simply doesn't recognise such complaints, just as they don't recognise women as fully human, hence there are none.

NHS policies make it impossible for women to state reality and complain about men in women's spaces - we know of at least one case where CCTV footage (plus I believe witnesses) confirmed a male raping a woman on a supposedly 'woman's' ward and even with this level of evidence they denied it and gaslit the victim of the attack for a year, compounding the abuse. Should be criminal really and is a women's human rights abuse.

Just from a quick scan they didn’t include prisons.
what about unis?
and the private sector?

…the latter presumably doesn’t show up in FOI and I’m not sure about unis, but I’d have thought prisons would and we know there have been serious incidents never mind ‘complaints’ in those.

It is sadly, exactly the point. I am very sorry that your daughter experienced this.

Added to the totalitarian authoritarianism action of those policies, it also has taught girls to have no personal boundaries. This is a significant issue for this generation. It is a horrific safeguarding fail.

Oh, the universities also went hard on the 'complain about a male and you're the one to be penalised'. Signs up in the loos, explicit policies warning the female students that their complaints would be regarded as transphobic, the usual.

This is the exact pattern I find when you have traditional boys and girls loos (separate with door gaps).

Some schools decide the best way is to make all the wc cubicles private and unisex (with shared sinks). This results in an unsafe environment if children have a medical emergency, the cubicles can’t be ventilated and cleaned as easily, and there are report of misuse for sex and drugs.

Another way schools have chosen, and was actually specified on the latest DfE design brief, is to have a ‘gender- neutral’ (note a different term to unisex which is the toilet specified by the school entrance) on each floor. This idea seems to have come from America, where I have found that they are used for sex, drugs and vandalised a lot. Pupils say they are disgusting and get ‘outed’ by using them and that teachers watch them (to try and mitigate problems). In America the school door gaps are huge compared to here so it is not unexpected with the total privacy they give gender neutral designs.

Girls won’t go into the boys toilets. They campaign for gender neutral then hate them. All girls avoid using toilets around boys.

Studying toilets in schools with all the weird combinations shows exactly what happens in society.

Their data is incomplete. I personally know more than four women who have raised complaints about this.

As pp’s have said, I think it is useful to show that these complaints don’t get documented.

I'm not accusing them of cherry picking data but weren't there women in prison who tried to complain and lost parole or were investigated for hate crimes?

''Female prisoner acquitted of ‘transphobic remarks’''
''Sheriff Millar said he was left unconvinced as he heard little evidence from SPS officers, despite claims that internal prison investigations had been conducted into the allegations of hounding.''

https://insidetime.org/newsround/female-prisoner-acquitted-of-transphobic-remarks/

Exactly. Look at what happens with crime statistics data when people stopped recording crimes properly according to sex?

How many times did people complain at pools, gyms, and simply had their memberships revoked rather than having the complaint recorded? How many women were fired from their jobs for complaining?

And I'm pretty sure the hundreds of brave women who faced verbal abuse and physical intimidation and violence as they were publicly protesting radical gender ideology were pretty openly and clearly complaining.

In this culture around gender of insane dishonesty, immorality, coercion, appalling behaviours and open bullying, and often staring you in the eye with the evidence right before them and insisting to you that it isn't there, it's rather like the Labour party. You cannot believe a single thing that comes from that direction.

Exactly, it's like when your coercively controlling abuser tells you that you're fine and they haven't tried to police your speech, control, undermine you and abuse you at every turn. It's meaningless lies and abuse. The point is they don't care what women think, they don't think women are full humans. Even as they're appropriating our words and human rights. They only want us to shut up and this 'report' is just concluding they've succeeded in shutting us up. Well not on here they haven't.

The efforts of these men to convince the world that women are fine with them in our spaces are as successful as their efforts to convince the world that they are really women.

Same level of desperation and dishonesty.

Does that total of four complaints include the 8 Darlington nurses?😏

A lot more complained to HR. I can't remember the exact number, but I think it was over 20.

And Sandie Peggie said that other staff members told her they were uncomfortable, but they didn't complain officially (I wonder why 🤔)