Do you exist IRL?

[EdgeOfThirtySeven]

It's just that I see so many TRAs stating that "nobody IRL cares about this stuff", so maybe we just all exist on Twitter/X and Mumsnet? Sort of disembodied AI? Not actual women in actual buildings, doing actual jobs and leading actual lives?

When Katy Colin Montgomery briefly returned to Twitter/X for his drunken pre- and post-Christmas rants, they centered on the idea that:

Man it's so weird looking at twitter and seeing GCs still going on and on about their nonsense ideology. Literally no one irl thinks about trans people at all. No one cares. If they got a hobby they'd be cured of their relentless insanity in an instant

...

Obviously I've not posted for ages because of, you know, the nazis and the bots and how authoritarian Elon has even censored the word cîs. But there's one thing I wanted to say: Gender Critical isn't real. No one irl gives a fuck AT ALL

I'm pretty sure that I exist IRL. My dog certainly relies on that. Oh, and my loving family, and friends 😆

I wonder sometimes how many trans people online are also trans in real life. There seems to be an awful lot more of them.on the Internet. And some are on the Internet so much it's hard to see how they have time for a life outside it.

Being trans online for Internet Points must be a lot less bother than actually walking the streets pretending to be the opposite sex.

When I get into these conversations IRL I try and consider who is being genuine and who is perhaps just flinging soundbites out for a reaction.

Most people IRL are genuine and want to talk about it, in my experience.

People give such a fuck that we can probably trace a big portion of the rise of far right populism across the world to this particular issue. Another reason I am cross with TRAs and identity politics in general.

Yes, it's been a gift for them.
I'm sure there are some lefty factions that have come out as recognising sex and gender identity as separate things, aren't there? It might take a while to reach the rest of the left though.

It seems to sway from it’s a genocide, everyone hates us, we must leave the country to nobody cares. It did make me laugh though poor Col can’t use X because he can no longer use Cis.

Obviously I've not posted for ages because of, you know, the nazis and the bots and how authoritarian Elon has even censored the word cîs

That did make me chuckle. "This point I'm making is so important it's totally worth using a nazi bigot platform".

Yes - it has completely undermined the assumption that centrist/left of centre politics values science and evidence.

You are evidently clever enough to realise your statement applies in both directions, of course,

And it might, not unreasonably I'd suggest, be said that bigots gender critical adherents would themselves "like to police people's thoughts!"

soundbite repetition is something that I have found most interesting potpouree.

I have found that those who are of the opinion that TWAW in real life do roll through the soundbite mantras when you start to ask questions. After a while when you start pointing out the lack of evidence or even logic to support those soundbites, people find they have nothing left but ‘just be kind’ which is an another soundbite.

Didn’t someone post on here that KM is very quiet at work? I’m not sure he turns up to protests or debates either so I’m not sure he as a TRA exists IRL either.

As posters have pointed out, his colleagues will likely know he’s trans so aren’t about to launch into a discussion of trans v women’s rights because a) they’re being polite and b) don’t want to get sacked.

Since you clearly have an open, inquisitive and intellectually curious mind, here's a short list of relevant reading material for you to ponder:

Core Peer-Reviewed Papers on Non-Binary / Multi-Gender Identities
Richards et al. (2016) – Non-binary or genderqueer genders
International Review of Psychiatry
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26753630/
doi.org/10.3109/09540261.2015.1106446
Schudson & Morgenroth (2022) – Nonbinary gender identities
Current Opinion in Psychology
www.sciencedirect.com/.../pii/S2352250X22002202
doi.org/10.1016/j.copsyc.2022.101324
James et al. (2016) – The Report of the U.S. Transgender Survey
(Nationally representative dataset; includes non-binary genders)
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6830994/
Whyte, Brooks & Torgler (2018) – Man, woman, “other”
Archives of Sexual Behavior
link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-018-1261-2
doi.org/10.1007/s10508-018-1261-2
Clark et al. (2018) – Identities beyond the binary
Journal of Adolescent Health
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352250X22002202
doi.org/10.1016/j.jadohealth.2018.03.027
Systematic Reviews & Meta-Analyses
Scandurra et al. (2019) – Health of non-binary and genderqueer people: A systematic review
International Journal of Transgenderism
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31293486/
doi.org/10.1080/15532739.2019.1652120
Lefevor et al. (2023) – Mental health disparities among non-binary individuals
Clinical Psychology Review
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39385290/
doi.org/10.1016/j.cpr.2023.102222
McNeil et al. (2021) – Experiences of non-binary people in healthcare
BMJ Open
bmjopen.bmj.com/content/11/7/e046872
doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2020-046872
Quantitative & Qualitative Empirical Studies
Hyde et al. (2019) – Gender nonconformity and identity diversity
American Psychologist
psycnet.apa.org/record/2019-17415-001
doi.org/10.1037/amp0000307
Thorne et al. (2018) – Gender diversity in childhood and adolescence
Journal of Adolescent Research
journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0743558418761994
Barr et al. (2016) – Gender as a continuum
Sex Roles
link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-015-0569-1
doi.org/10.1007/s11199-015-0569-1
Measurement & Methodology Research (Important Scientifically)
Westbrook & Saperstein (2015) – New categories are not enough
Gender & Society
journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0891243215584758
Morgenroth & Ryan (2020) – The effects of gender identification beyond the binary
European Journal of Social Psychology
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ejsp.2673
Lindqvist et al. (2021) – Gender beyond the binary: Measurement and classification
Psychology & Sexuality
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19419899.2020.1729847
Neuroscience, Development & Biological Context (Clarifying Sex vs Gender)
Joel et al. (2015) – Sex beyond the genitalia
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS)
www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1509654112
Fausto-Sterling (2012) – The dynamic development of sex and gender
Biology of Sex Differences
bsd.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2042-6410-3-9
Major Peer-Reviewed Journals Publishing Ongoing Research
(All peer-reviewed)
Archives of Sexual Behavior
link.springer.com/journal/10508
International Journal of Transgender Health
www.tandfonline.com/toc/wijt21/current
Gender & Society
journals.sagepub.com/home/gas
Current Opinion in Psychology
https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/current-opinion-in-psychology

My viewpoint is not based on stereotypes, it is based on observable real world actions and behaviours.

Why do you keep crossing out "bigots" in a passive aggressive way? Just say what you think, if that's what you think. Own it.

‘Bigots’ who believe that women need sex specific rights? ‘Bigots’ who don’t want to be defined by tbe sexist stereotypes that oppressed their mothers and grandmothers? ‘Bigots’ who are old enough to remember life before equality law protected women’s rights? ‘Bigots’ who know people don’t just randomly menstruate, and give birth? That the consequences of pregnancy and miscarriage only affect one sex?

It’s just that the opposite of GC feminism seems to be very similar to the old fashioned sexism that many of us have endured for decades. ‘Don’t take up space, don’t be rude to men, don’t whatever you do be awkward and talk about women’s rights’.

Are there still people out there pretending that GC people like gender conformity? And think it's good and want more of it?

Because the clue is kind of in the name! Critiquing gender and its many harms!

"My viewpoint is not based on stereotypes, it is based on observable real world actions and behaviours."

It isn't, but thank you for confirming why you hold the view you do on this subject. Please see my previous post where I've gathered together some links that might be of interest to someone who cares about "observable real world actions and behaviours"

So you are telling me what I've experienced and what I've seen. Amusing!

Someone has kindly posted links to entire journals instead of engaging directly.

That's lovely and thoughtful, but most of us are aware of these journals already.

Have whatever personality you want.

It no more changes your sex than women changed sex when they were allowed to go to university or wear trousers.

I’m afraid too many of us are aware of ‘Conundrum’ 1974 by Morris J to believe that this was ever based on anything more than stereotypes.

one presents as female (and is stunningly beautiful, you would never know

You would never know what - that he's a man? You do realise that you are being a bigoted transphobe, there?

Welcome! 💐

All the titles reveal an assumption that some characteristics are normal for women and some for men, a bit like Victorians hypothesising that women’s organs would be harmed by education.

Excellent! Since you are so well read on these journals, I shall be delighted to hear your thoughts on which aspects are, in your view, wrong since they conflict with your gender critical ideology.

Please try to be specific in your references, as well; we certainly don't want to be left with the impression that you haven't actually read any scientific data and aren't able to reason out as to why your GC ideology has scientific basis.

Sex. Not "gender". That's what concerns us, and that's what makes us women. Not a "feeling", or some tedious PHD tract about gender stereotypes or norms.

Well I think chromosomes have been very well researched , men are XY and women are XX. People have either differences if the XX chromosomes or the XY chromosomes . Noone is intersex. Clown fish can change sex , but they are fish not people.

I rather suspect anyone who trots out the phrase ‘delusional GC ideology’ doesn’t actually know what ‘gender critical’ means (and doesn’t mean) at all.

Maybe they could start their education with Delusions of Gender? Or more simply, do they think the ideology inspiring campaigns like ‘Let Toys be Toys’ is ‘delusional’?

You are asking me to list everything in four journals that I don't agree with, have I understood that correctly?

What specific belief do I hold that you consider to be GC?