Do you exist IRL?

[EdgeOfThirtySeven]

It's just that I see so many TRAs stating that "nobody IRL cares about this stuff", so maybe we just all exist on Twitter/X and Mumsnet? Sort of disembodied AI? Not actual women in actual buildings, doing actual jobs and leading actual lives?

When Katy Colin Montgomery briefly returned to Twitter/X for his drunken pre- and post-Christmas rants, they centered on the idea that:

Man it's so weird looking at twitter and seeing GCs still going on and on about their nonsense ideology. Literally no one irl thinks about trans people at all. No one cares. If they got a hobby they'd be cured of their relentless insanity in an instant

...

Obviously I've not posted for ages because of, you know, the nazis and the bots and how authoritarian Elon has even censored the word cîs. But there's one thing I wanted to say: Gender Critical isn't real. No one irl gives a fuck AT ALL

I'm pretty sure that I exist IRL. My dog certainly relies on that. Oh, and my loving family, and friends 😆

Hello, this is my first time posting on any of these threads but I have been lurking for some time now, and I have learnt an awful lot from the threads. I exist. I have had a few discussions recently with my close family and friends and it seems to be discussed a lot more now. I had a conversation with a neighbour over the weekend and we are on the same page. I also recently had a discussion with my sister who is TWAW but not to an extreme level. We had a chat, she gave a couple of examples of why she thought TW should be in women's spaces and I gave a few examples of why they shouldn't. I did see a very small penny drop. This subject is very much being talked about more in my opinion.

I think what he means is “nobody says much about it in real life”. No they don’t mate, because they’re intimidated and don’t want to be called names like bigot/transphobe/ be verbally attacked by TRAs.

When I’ve been brave enough to raise the subject with some friends who I suspected might be on the “TWAW” side of the debate, I found that they thought of themselves as allies, but when questioned further agreed with me that they shouldn’t be allowed in women’s spaces/sports, and kids shouldn’t be medicalised, so would likely be called transphobic if they said that out loud in front of their trans pals at work.

TRA yo-yo between believing that terfs are irrelevant and nobody agrees with them, and trans people are the most marginalised and targeted demographic in existence.

I genuinely only see it on mums net. I have never seen it, or had a conversation about it negativity in real life. I have a couple of trans friends , one presents as female (and is stunningly beautiful, you would never know, uses female toilets etc , never been noticed or commented on in my experience) the other presents as very masculine I was very surprised when they told me they used to be a female , again in my experience I have never witnessed any objections or negative comments. I live in a very liberal area so I may be admittedly be in a bubble but in my real life its never been a problem

Yes. If you haven’t had a conversation with any negativity mentioned, you probably live in a bubble as you admit.

The very fact that the polling indicates the majority of people in the UK want single sex provisions to remain single sex would make it seem that your personal experience is not likely to be the universal experience. It is just as unlikely as your claim that ‘no one will identify the sex of your stunningly beautiful friend’.

I know quite a few people involved with sport and it is definitely being discussed. So to medical treatment for children amongst parents of teens and the negative impacts on teenagers having mixed sex school toilets etc. As well as Guiding and Scouts.

However, we also know through at least two polls in the UK alone that if people believe that they will have a negative reaction, such as abuse or ostracisation, for speaking openly about their opinions they will not speak openly. They will just not discuss it at all in that person’s presence. So it is also likely that this contributes to the false perception that no one but MN is discussing this.

Where people aren't terfy in real life it tends to be that they don't believe how far it has gone. "But they wouldn't actually let a boy into the girls' changing room would they? You're just being paranoid. They'd change somewhere different. They wouldn't put a boy in the girls rugby team, that would be insane. My daughter wouldn't stand for that."

Having leafleted in a major town centre, there are so many people who have been following female sports issues, guides, the NHS cases and support feminists campaigning to prioritise female single sex provisions. People still talk about Bryson too.

This is in no way just an MN issue. Far from it unless you curate your communication and interaction to exclude people who may have a negative opinion about the demands to prioritise gender identity over someone’s sex.

And since I was with you at the time, we can confirm each other’s RL existence. Also that there was overwhelming agreement that women have a right to single sex, not gender, facilities.

Pretty sure I exist IRL. Really interesting to hear that Terfery has become mainstream. I’ve bored my friends had conversations about this for years and the majority of people have agreed for years. So pleased it has now become more socially acceptable.

I work in a very working class community and I’d say GC views are the norm. Also held are pretty right wing views around a whole bunch of views. I think the ‘quieter’ IRL group are those of us who are fairly liberal/left wing but who also hold GC views.

Whilst it's true that there are some people who adhere to the delusional GC ideology IRL, I suspect what's actually been referred to here is that there is something about the pseudo-anonymous nature of online fora that results in people being rather more forthright than they would in face-to-face situations.

I personally have never met anybody who is outwardly bigoted gender-critical to others in person since good manners and social acceptability ensure any hatred they might harbour is kept private, as it should be.

You then add bots, which both outrage and feed on the outrage of, certain types of people into the mix and the result is that online discourse is a toxic, ugly caricature of real-world interactions.

Literally no one irl thinks about trans people at all. No one cares.

Genuinely, I'm glad if they think that.
I'm glad it's not "terf island is so bigoted we'll all literally die if we have to stay among these people silently not believing woman is a feeling".

Because it demonstrates the violence and hate they talk about doesn't exist in GC women, and the majority belief that sex is real and sometimes it matters affects their lives not one bit.

I mean, obviously this person will massively contradict themselves tomorrow, but for today it's good.

My Aunt Bunbury agrees too.

I have a couple of trans friends , one presents as female

That's interesting - do they believe that being a woman means being female in some way? Because that's a GC view.

To make the most obvious point imaginable, if no one was talking about it in real life, then there wouldn't be any need to employ so many tactics to stop people talking about it, including the threats of violence, sacking women from their jobs, reporting them to the police, chucking them out of council meetings (see recent thread about Bristol), getting their speaking engagements cancelled, throwing them out of political parties, banning them from social media, standing outside meetings shouting abuse and letting off smoke bombs.

That's an awful lot of effort going into silencing people who apparently don't exist.

I found this over Christmas, I was at a party with some pretty liberal be kind friends of mine, they have enjoyed watching the bbc show what it feels like for a girl, things like that, but this time they started a big conversation about image khelif and the world strongest woman competition. It stayed pretty polite but there was a general consensus that a lot of what is going on is unbelievable.
So I think people all over are seeing the dark side and realising it’s not just dressing up in nightclubs, but it affects real life people (women) very negatively.

Creepy men are so used to women self-excluding around them (wherever the women possibly can do), they think women don’t exist as real people in they way that they, the creeps, do

No, I am forthright and clear in real life too about supporting women's rights. Why should I hide that? I am polite (as far as it goes) in face to face situations but I don't conceal what I really think for fake "social acceptability".

If you are trans then I assure you that many people are being polite to your face; their real feelings may be rather different.

I appreciate that i'm more fortunate than others who, understandably, have to hide their sex realism, e.g. at work.

You talk about trans people you know in terms of how well they pass.

Do you think trans rights should depend on passing?

The whole concept of passing requires people to believe that men are male and women are female. Which is hateful according to TRAs.

The delusional GC ideology that gendered stereotypes oppress women and sex is real and important.

I’m always amazed when people post on a site largely created for women who have just given birth, and fail to acknowledge the impact of sex.

Can’t think of anything more delusional really.

If you are trans then I assure you that many people are being polite to your face; their real feelings may be rather different.

You are mistaken, but I both suspect and accept that we move in very, very different circles.

It's just that I see so many TRAs stating that "nobody IRL cares about this stuff

’this stuff’ is women’s rights. They don’t exist if ‘woman’ is just a personality.

However there will always be men who say they are unimportant and women who are only too happy to agree.

Are you really saying that women discussing single sex provisions are bigots and just hateful?

You have no idea what's going on in people's heads, much as TRAs would like to police people's thoughts!

You're making assumptions about me and the circles I move in based on your own set of stereotypes about others.