Mixed sex toilets are terrifying for women but just a laugh for men.

[CrocsNotDocs]

I can enjoy a good fart joke but this “hilarious” anecdote by cricket commentator David “Bumble” Lloyd left me cold. Men really have no idea of the fear women have of mixed sex facilities.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3843028419327926/?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&fs=e&fs=e

If the link doesn’t work, it’s a viral, supposedly hilarious account of David going into a mixed-sex loo for a poo and letting off a loud fart. The lady in the cubicle next to him calls out “Is that you Maureen”.

From David’s point of view, (and pretty much every man and “cool girl” on the planet) he thinks that Maureen must be such a regular farter that her friend thinks the fart noise just has to be her.

I suspect most women would read this situation differently- Maureen’s friend has realised she was half naked inches away from a strange man and is calling out anxiously to her friend to make sure she isn’t alone.

I’m wondering what this board’s thoughts would be. Am I just looking to hard into an anecdote or is men’s complete obliviousness a big issue when it comes to mixed sex facilities.

Not terrified here either, sorry to disappoint.

And yet they walk among us

After discussing facial recognition software with my police BIL the other day, I wondered if at some point in the future some form of this could be used to literally prevent males from entering female spaces. Like a turnstile type set up that scanned the face/body/gait and will only open for those perceived as female.

Anything like this being completely trustworthy is I know a long way off, ("but what about butch lesbians, blah blah"🙄) but there really ARE some very subtle sex markers that you cannot conceal.
I think it's only a matter of time before AI can be used to decipher this with near to perfect accuracy.

Really fucking sad that the solution isn't just that men stay the fuck out.

But we had an interesting conversation, nonetheless.

One of my work colleagues once said a man in the work cubicle next to him was.
I didn't know whether to be suspicious of the bloke who chose to share that with me or of all the other guys.

Maybe he was making it up for his own reasons or maybe he was alarmed. I wouldn't have wanted to share an enclosed space with any one of them.

It is fucking irrelevant that it is a ‘small’ number. It happens!

Do you think women can be allowed to discuss that it happens without centring men who might be offended that women are discussing it as part of the overall reason they don’t want to share toilets with men? Or do we have to not discuss it because it is ‘just a few’ and us discussing it shows we hate men?

And gosh, let’s not forget there are men who like to carry tampons ‘just in case a female person needs them’ ?

Mixed-sex toilets are a godsend to those who care for an opposite sex family member, especially when disabled provision is inadequate, out of use, or far away.
I agree disabled (accessible) provision is often inadequate. It is often abused and misused. It should be the most supervised, checked, cleaned provision. The country should have an absolute shake-up over this and there should be prosecutions for inadequate accessible facilities. This is what we should be prioritising not adding random smaller unisex (universal) provision. The mixed sex accessible toilet provision should be in as noticeable a place as possible. I have been a carer for a male and a female, going into accessible toilets and helping them transfer on to the toilet. The disabled toilets were often unclean, have had drug paraphernalia in them and the emergency cord was tied up. The rooms had stored chairs/boxes etc in them. The female I looked after had the indignity of me having to go into the toilet with her just in case, as she was trying to be independent and transfer by herself but she couldn’t be as we couldn’t communicate through a solid door. She would have felt more included, safer and cleaner if she could have gone into female toilets. Why can’t disabled people have the nicer single sex option if they are independent or have a same sex carer? It will leave the mixed sex option free.
**
‘Or for parents with opposite sex children who are slightly too old to use facilities by themselves but who may still need assistance.’
Children use facilities by themselves at school. However, there is evidence there is over 1 rape per school day in British school premises. Children are safer going into traditional school toilets of their sex that have door gaps than be in a school environment that has private (toilet) rooms. Yet 25% of secondary schools have (private designs) of unisex toilet provision.
The exception of a child going to the single sex public toilets of the sex of the opposite sex adult carer is a correct exception. There is a debate how old this should be. It ranges from 8 to 10. If an older child still really needs assistance, then the mixed sex accessible (disabled) toilet could be used. Most men are good men. Most men will look out for a youngster if he is in trouble.

I have many examples where boys and girls have been taken in to private toilet cubicles/rooms, often in very busy places, and abused by men. I cannot stress enough that design is paramount and any private toilets, particularly if they are ‘accepted’ mixed sex designs, are not as safe. Examples are in pubs, supermarkets, shops, train carriages etc.

In the past, the only unisex toilet in a school was traditionally was designed to be opposite the reception desk at the entrance. If there has to be a private toilet this is the correct place for it to be.

My ideal for a large venue is a highly monitored changing places room (mixed sex) and accessible room (mixed sex). Then large single sex accessible cubicles (priority for disabled/baby change/parents with pushchairs), single sex ambulant cubicles, single sex cubicles. Hand washing facilities for the last two in a single sex environment that the last three are leading off from. A feeding room with just a sink can be off that too. All the single sex cubicles have floor to door gaps of 15cm to allow for visible and auditory monitoring and gaps above the door/partition up to the ceiling. As should be now, all cubicles are able to be opened from the outside with inward opening doors being able to be opened outward. These last two safety features together will save several lives per year. Doors resting in the open position for ventilation and so women know who is in the vicinity. This and the gaps under the doors and partitions mean the whole area can be mopped thoroughly with bleach and the floor should slope slightly to drains. As much natural light as possible and obscure windows that can be opened to allow natural ventilation. Individual sinks and paper towels. Soap and warm water. As few surfaces to touch as possible. The toilet cubicles themselves should be simple and plain as possible so it can be hosed down if necessary and a camera could not be hidden easily. This is the short version 😬 of what I think provision should be, based on health and safety needs.

it's got be a small number of vile weirdos that do that

The problem is, it's all the vile weirdos.

The rapists, the sex assaulters, the bullies, the leerers, the voyeurs, the exposers, the fetishists, the intimidators, the aggressors and the killers.

Allowing any man who wants to access vulnerable women and girls, means that ALL men who want to do it can.

Who won't do it? All the lovely Nigels. Who will do it, all the vile weirdos.

It's the most awful policy that any misogynist could dream up.

Imagine not knowing about male paraphilias and shaming women who do know about them by accusing them of hating men!

I mean, when you understand that men have been arrested for having sex with holes in the wall and potholes in the road, you realise that fetishising having a period is just one aspect of men’s sexual interest.

Just think of how many pee and poo trolls turn up on MN each month?

And no one is saying ‘all men are like this ‘. No one.

Your issue here is your wet blanket of a husband who doesn’t want to “rock the boat”

This is his family and he should be the one speaking up to them. It is not ok for you and your children to be living on rations every time you stay there.

Tell your husband to start speaking up or you’ll stop going.

I’ve never met one woman who likes them. Me included. I hate them.

But I'd love to see all the historical campaigns from women saying why can't we have mixed sex toilets, it's no big deal.

For anyone interested, here is the early 2025 YouGov tracker information on whether people want gender neutral toilets or separate single sex toilets:

A new poll reveals that support for mixed-sex toilets is at its lowest level in five years.

Do you think public spaces should have separate toilets for men and women, gender neutral toilets, or both?

Separate toilets for men and women. 59%
Gender neutral toilets as well as separate toilets for men and women. 32%
Gender neutral toilets only. 5%
None of the above. 1%
Don't know. 3%

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/support-for-separate-toilets-for-men-and-women-and-gender-neutral-toilets-in-public-spaces

Like this delightful young chap. There was a more local article that went into more detail but I couldn't bring myself to post it.

Edited to add rocking horse in children's playground.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teen-who-committed-sex-act-36431044.amp

We're all inside our cubicles so i don't mind them but I personally don't liked mixed toilets as much. There is generally a more secure feeling in ladies only, we all may rustle with our period stuff, ask if anyone has a spare pad, take young kids in with us etc. Xxx

In this case, women were able to alert someone because this man wasn't entitled to be there.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/paedophile-secretly-filmed-women-public-28737673

And for those who doubt that there are men who film themselves wanking being in the toilet that female people use, here is a thread. A major part of the attraction is the presence of female people (even though those female people cannot see what is happening).

Found parts of that compilation from Nig Heke, much of it has been deleted now. This is 'not safe for work' although, I believe much of it has been blurred out.

https://archive.md/83jAx

But, apparently, women don't know anything about male paraphilias and toilets and if we discuss them, we must just "hate men".

he thinks that Maureen must be such a regular farter that her friend thinks the fart noise just has to be her

That's how I took it as well.

I don't give a toss what anyone else thinks, I prefer single sex toilets. Men and their handmaidens be damned.

@Helleofabore yes unisex toilets are worse. I believe there is some suppressed evidence out there which is why Doc T for public toilets was very much single sex toilets first, then unisex if there is room.

India is more open academically to studying this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0014292125000030

@ContentedAlpaca There are a few stories like Kurtis Mawson where men have been tried as men but pretended they were transwomen at the time. Of course that’s what men who want access are going to do if there’s an exception. Many of them get Sexual Harm Prevention Orders which ban them from using women’s and unisex toilets. I don’t know where they are supposed to go if it’s all unisex.

Back to design:
There has been so much technology used trying to overcome the safety problems you get when you create total privacy. It all has drawbacks.

Timed door openings (if you are in there too long, the door opens). Kids learn to kick the doors so it triggers them to open.
Weighted floors (too fat or too much shopping and the door won’t shut as it assumes you are 2 people up to no good)
Listening devices triggered to send a ‘help’ to a switchboard when certain sounds are made (relies on a switchboard and is intrusive, what’s to say it isn’t a camera too).
Alarms for vaping (go off so frequently they get switched off. Also worries about cameras)
Blue lights (drug users still use the facilities but it’s less safe and affects those with vision problems)
Visual fire alarms within the cubicle for deaf people and mechanical ventilation (all good places to hide hidden cameras which seem ubiquitous now)

You can’t research toilets without having some eyebrow raising stories. I must admit the ‘the carrots were the last straw’ story was a new one I wasn’t expecting. Sex in toilets happens everywhere by the way - to those who think it doesn’t happen in more respectable places - you are wrong.

There’s websites where people organise meet ups. If it’s private and the space is big enough are the deciding factors. Nice facilities are nice. If it’s mixed sex that’s a big bonus as there’s an excuse to be in there if it’s a man and a woman.

Lesbians have the best toilet manners. In fact in 2003/4 when sex in a public toilet was made illegal it was argued it was discriminatory towards men because no lesbians had ever been in toilet trouble with the law. This, to my knowledge, is still true.

“nothing to see here” from the person who told women discussing the fact that there is a group of men who retrieve used san pro must be making things up and just hate men.

Since some secondary schools have started using unisex provision, girls find this out quickly. Schools soon realise free sanitary stuff can’t be placed in unisex toilet cubicles. Some girls avoid drinking to avoid going to the toilets altogether and avoid going to school during their period.

edit to say: it’s throwing the sanitary towels about, urinating in the sanitary bins, putting stuff on the sanitary towels etc.