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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are we extremist and fanatical?

598 replies

RogueFemale · 19/12/2025 20:06

We, as in gender critical/sex realist women.

I saw an old schoolfriend today, to exchange Christmas gifts over tea and biscuits. She's highly educated and intelligent, v. firmly feminist (in the sense of anti-patriarchy, and wanting women to use Ms not Miss or Mrs). Has travelled widely, knows a lot about other cultures etc.

Politics came up and I mentioned Phillipson blocking the ECHR guidance, and how I wasn't happy about it.

Turns out she thinks my gender critical views are extremist and fanatical. Actual words. I knew already she was inclined to the 'be kind' end of the spectrum, and that we disagreed, but this was new - that I'm an extremist.

That I was being unkind and TiM had a right to exist (I said of course they do, but...). That I should keep my views to myself, if I didn't want to be regarded as a nasty person, essentially.

I said, 'you don't understand'. She was having none of it, said she understands very well, and how there's been gender fluidity since time began. (And these poor TiM have nowhere to pee if they can't go in the ladies, as they'll get abused if they go in the mens).

But she really doesn't understand what is happening now.

I tried to tell her about autogynophilia, about how TiM have been attacking women who protest, the pattern these men have of abuse convictions, same as all men, etc. I said I could send her stuff to prove my points, she said, please don't.

Just a bit depressed to be told by an old friend that I'm a fanatical extremist weirdo, really.

OP posts:
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Helleofabore · 23/12/2025 15:03

There also seems to be a theme that is being pushed that if criticism or calls for moderation or a specific point of view comes from someone who agrees sometimes with the majority of the posters on a board, that that criticism, point of view should not be interacted with either.

Is it really being suggested that the etiquette should be if there is agreement on some issues or concepts is a shield against a post being challenged? Because how does this work?

Plus, why does it matter if a concept has been mentioned in a post from someone who partially agrees vs someone who completely has the opposing view. If people disagree when the concept in part or in full, they should question it or discuss it in detail if they seek to understand it. Or point out where that concept is weak or fails just the same.

Helleofabore · 23/12/2025 15:40

nicepotoftea · 23/12/2025 11:08

I don't understand the relevance.

From my experience Tandora posts something provocative that can't be backed up by evidence or logic, and people get sucked in.

I always assume that the goal is just to get people to engage, but I don't think they are particularly aggressive compared to e.g. AIBU. Perhaps people shouldn't waste their time on them, but then there are plenty of threads on MN that have no purpose.

I agree that the poster in question very much is provocative. But maybe for some people that is seen as righteous and good compared to other posters. Not only that but there very much is a ‘true trans’ arbitration contained in those posts.

But obviously, those posts have great value compared to the regular posters of FWR who are viewed as lesser.

MyAmpleSheep · 23/12/2025 15:57

Helleofabore · 23/12/2025 14:43

I agree.

If someone wishes to control how others interact with their posts, they need to start a platform just for them (easy to do these days), or join a heavily moderated group.

It is remarkable to think that someone really doesn’t their posts interacted with yet posts on a discussion forum. And to declare that people should stop interacting with a post because that poster has left the thread doesn’t reflect how these discussion forums work at all.

I am now really thinking there are people who can’t understand how their own interaction parameters amount to control of a group. Or don’t want to understand.

If you don’t want your posts interacted with by people you cannot control, then there are other options available on the internet.

The “I’m leaving the thread, don’t reply to me” meme is really just a laughable attempt to have the last word.

Frankly if you’re genuinely leaving a thread, why would you care? Your comments are hardly a bequest to (wo)mankind.

nicepotoftea · 23/12/2025 15:58

Helleofabore · 23/12/2025 15:40

I agree that the poster in question very much is provocative. But maybe for some people that is seen as righteous and good compared to other posters. Not only that but there very much is a ‘true trans’ arbitration contained in those posts.

But obviously, those posts have great value compared to the regular posters of FWR who are viewed as lesser.

But maybe for some people that is seen as righteous and good compared to other posters.

But even then, this is the feminist board.

If your posts are sexist, you will get push back.

Helleofabore · 23/12/2025 16:31

nicepotoftea · 23/12/2025 15:58

But maybe for some people that is seen as righteous and good compared to other posters.

But even then, this is the feminist board.

If your posts are sexist, you will get push back.

Yes, indeed.

If people can see where there might be harm to female people as a collective in a concept or a point of view, it would be unusual not to discuss this on a feminist board.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2025 21:57

ArabellaSaurus · 23/12/2025 10:15

Part of it.

I'm afraid a large part is that women who fail to quietly accommodate men's preferences are seen and characterised as 'extreme'.

We do go on, we nag, we hector, we lecture, we harangue, chit chat, and gossip. (Women should be silent)

If we won't submit we are strident, shrieking, spewing, angry, nasty, bitter, jealous. (Women should be agreeable)

If we are persistent we are fanatics, mental, nuts, loonies, liabilities, unstable, hormonal, hysterical, etc.(Women should do as they're told)

Don't forget we are also old, bitter, ugly, in need of a good shag, prudes, pearl clutchers and Karens. (Women should work to maintain their fuckability, because that is our role and value)

Its really quite astonishing how much aggressive characterising goes into efforts to control women.

Silent and invisible is the violence of men's desires enacted on women, womens bodies, and women's lives.

To demonstrate their status men must subjugate, control, and curate women, and display these pretty, smiling tokens as evidence of their male power.

Yes, from time immemorial.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2025 22:06

Shedmistress · 23/12/2025 11:42

Hundreds of threads on here each week continue after people who disagree with each other stop posting.

If people want threads stopped after a certain amount of time after each individual stops posting, then this ceases to be a forum.

Maybe those individuals need their own substack instead?

Edited

I agree. These threads all go exactly the same way, and it comes down to people not really understanding how a talk forum works, or want special treatment for themselves and their pet viewpoints.

RogueFemale · 23/12/2025 22:46

I wasn't expecting this thread to go this way, but it's been good to see everyone arguing the toss. I don't participate much here, I don't feel confident to argue anything, but one thing is for certain, that I was radicalised by MN (thank you ladies!) - it started with feeling super fucked off with the male murderer Scarlet Blake being described as a woman in BBC news (and when I complained they still said he was a woman, fucktards) and when I came on here I had found my tribe.

OP posts:
idontknowhowtodreamyourdreams · 23/12/2025 23:05

HildegardP · 19/12/2025 20:13

One can be very intelligent & yet vulnerable to emotional manipulation & group think.

Exactly this. It's possible to be intelligent, cultured etc and have no critical thinking skills or ability to listen to others' views.

It's v disappointing to discover a long-standing friend is such a person though.

MobyTick · 23/12/2025 23:58

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 23/12/2025 13:28

Except they have.

In the same way that women are being asked to modify their behaviour if they don't want/like/can't share space with a man who would like to use them and the women's space to meet his own needs.

Keyword “required”, as in edict from MN, Ophelia.

MobyTick · 24/12/2025 00:06

Helleofabore · 23/12/2025 15:40

I agree that the poster in question very much is provocative. But maybe for some people that is seen as righteous and good compared to other posters. Not only that but there very much is a ‘true trans’ arbitration contained in those posts.

But obviously, those posts have great value compared to the regular posters of FWR who are viewed as lesser.

Not necessarily. That poster/thread is an example of a deluge and pile-ons that I was asked to give. I made no remark as to her goodness nor righteousness, and that is not the point. You can wilfully misinterpret if you like.

Shedmistress · 24/12/2025 05:31

MobyTick · 24/12/2025 00:06

Not necessarily. That poster/thread is an example of a deluge and pile-ons that I was asked to give. I made no remark as to her goodness nor righteousness, and that is not the point. You can wilfully misinterpret if you like.

Did you use the words 'good Tandora thread' or did the word 'good' jump into the sentence without your knowledge?

Namelessnelly · 24/12/2025 05:41

MobyTick · 23/12/2025 10:30

I’m suggesting you could find examples quite easily yourself as you well know. How about a good Tandora thread, perhaps? Start there, maybe.

(Before you ask, I am not Tandora.)

You mean the same Tandora that mocked and minimised a rape victim? That Tandora? The one who repeatedly told women their trauma didn’t matter as much as mens feelings? The one who repeatedly insulted and scolded women for not kowtowing to men? Is that the one you mean? And that was supposed to be allowed to stand unchallenged?

Helleofabore · 24/12/2025 06:22

Namelessnelly · 24/12/2025 05:41

You mean the same Tandora that mocked and minimised a rape victim? That Tandora? The one who repeatedly told women their trauma didn’t matter as much as mens feelings? The one who repeatedly insulted and scolded women for not kowtowing to men? Is that the one you mean? And that was supposed to be allowed to stand unchallenged?

Indeed Nelly. The one who also has a very long history of personal attacks and name calling as well that many people defending them don’t seem to acknowledge.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/12/2025 07:16

Namelessnelly · 24/12/2025 05:41

You mean the same Tandora that mocked and minimised a rape victim? That Tandora? The one who repeatedly told women their trauma didn’t matter as much as mens feelings? The one who repeatedly insulted and scolded women for not kowtowing to men? Is that the one you mean? And that was supposed to be allowed to stand unchallenged?

That’s the one.

MobyTick · 24/12/2025 07:18

Shedmistress · 24/12/2025 05:31

Did you use the words 'good Tandora thread' or did the word 'good' jump into the sentence without your knowledge?

Maybe that’s a regional use that didn’t translate. I used it in the sense ‘one of those threads everyone anticipates with eagerness’. Not ‘good’ as in ‘great’.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/12/2025 07:20

MobyTick · 24/12/2025 07:18

Maybe that’s a regional use that didn’t translate. I used it in the sense ‘one of those threads everyone anticipates with eagerness’. Not ‘good’ as in ‘great’.

So you get why the poster in question is a tad problematic then?

MobyTick · 24/12/2025 07:21

Namelessnelly · 24/12/2025 05:41

You mean the same Tandora that mocked and minimised a rape victim? That Tandora? The one who repeatedly told women their trauma didn’t matter as much as mens feelings? The one who repeatedly insulted and scolded women for not kowtowing to men? Is that the one you mean? And that was supposed to be allowed to stand unchallenged?

Do you understand I’m not defending Tandora specifically? An example of pile-ons was wanted. I gave one. You’ll always defend whatever example I give, so what’s the point?

Namelessnelly · 24/12/2025 07:29

MobyTick · 24/12/2025 07:21

Do you understand I’m not defending Tandora specifically? An example of pile-ons was wanted. I gave one. You’ll always defend whatever example I give, so what’s the point?

But that wasn’t a pile on. That was a lot of posters expressing their outrage and disgust at a rape victim being mocked. We’re not a hive mind. The fact so many posters were moved to express their feelings is not a pile on. Weee we supposed to nominate one poster to post about it? Is there a rota? A secret WhatsApp chat?

Namelessnelly · 24/12/2025 07:30

MobyTick · 24/12/2025 07:18

Maybe that’s a regional use that didn’t translate. I used it in the sense ‘one of those threads everyone anticipates with eagerness’. Not ‘good’ as in ‘great’.

No one anticipates a tandora thread. That poster is usually met with sighs of “here we go again with the batshittery”.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/12/2025 07:32

I've always thought a rota would be good but nobody listens. 😔

KitWyn · 24/12/2025 07:36

MobyTick · 24/12/2025 00:06

Not necessarily. That poster/thread is an example of a deluge and pile-ons that I was asked to give. I made no remark as to her goodness nor righteousness, and that is not the point. You can wilfully misinterpret if you like.

Tandora believes that:

  • Dr Upton is a biological female
  • If a patient asks for a female doctor to perform an intimate procedure, Dr Upton [despite his Y-chromosome, male puberty and penis/prostate/testicles] is a 'female' so qualifies
  • It is the patient's responsibility to specify 'female but NOT a trans woman' when making her request

This is insane. Selfish. And a very stupid 'opinion'. It's as delusional as believing that the Earth is flat, or that the moon landings were faked. Science says that Dr Upton is 100% male and 100% man. And so does the UK Equality Act 2010.

Posted on a Reddit Transgender sub, Tandora will be generously fêted for this absurdity. On Mumsnet feminist boards, Tandora will be told, also in a large volume of replies, that the exact same opinions are laughably silly. No coordination will be needed to generate either set of responses.

It's like going to St James Park, emptying an enormous sack of walnuts over your head, and then complaining that the squirrels are a menace. Alleging that they are viciously coordinated in their bullying attacks, and just won't leave you alone. Despite you asking them so very nicely to ignore your walnuts and return to their trees.

Whhhhhhyyyyyyyy are they being so mean to me? I'm just here enjoying my delicious nuts in a completely normal and unremarkable manner. I'm being cruelly mobbed here. Punish the squirrels. Punish them all.

Waitwhat23 · 24/12/2025 07:42

ArabellaSaurus · 24/12/2025 07:32

I've always thought a rota would be good but nobody listens. 😔

Something in the way of a Google doc must be possible. With a big siren and flashing lights alert sent as a notification to the chosen poster's phone, with a loud voice announcement which bellows 'your turn! Post quickly! And *no swearing!!'

That'll learn us to post in an orderly fashion.

Helleofabore · 24/12/2025 07:44

KitWyn · 24/12/2025 07:36

Tandora believes that:

  • Dr Upton is a biological female
  • If a patient asks for a female doctor to perform an intimate procedure, Dr Upton [despite his Y-chromosome, male puberty and penis/prostate/testicles] is a 'female' so qualifies
  • It is the patient's responsibility to specify 'female but NOT a trans woman' when making her request

This is insane. Selfish. And a very stupid 'opinion'. It's as delusional as believing that the Earth is flat, or that the moon landings were faked. Science says that Dr Upton is 100% male and 100% man. And so does the UK Equality Act 2010.

Posted on a Reddit Transgender sub, Tandora will be generously fêted for this absurdity. On Mumsnet feminist boards, Tandora will be told, also in a large volume of replies, that the exact same opinions are laughably silly. No coordination will be needed to generate either set of responses.

It's like going to St James Park, emptying an enormous sack of walnuts over your head, and then complaining that the squirrels are a menace. Alleging that they are viciously coordinated in their bullying attacks, and just won't leave you alone. Despite you asking them so very nicely to ignore your walnuts and return to their trees.

Whhhhhhyyyyyyyy are they being so mean to me? I'm just here enjoying my delicious nuts in a completely normal and unremarkable manner. I'm being cruelly mobbed here. Punish the squirrels. Punish them all.

The poster in question would soon be removed from most trans groups when they started to arbitrate who was and wasn’t really transgender according to that poster.

Waitwhat23 · 24/12/2025 07:46

KitWyn · 24/12/2025 07:36

Tandora believes that:

  • Dr Upton is a biological female
  • If a patient asks for a female doctor to perform an intimate procedure, Dr Upton [despite his Y-chromosome, male puberty and penis/prostate/testicles] is a 'female' so qualifies
  • It is the patient's responsibility to specify 'female but NOT a trans woman' when making her request

This is insane. Selfish. And a very stupid 'opinion'. It's as delusional as believing that the Earth is flat, or that the moon landings were faked. Science says that Dr Upton is 100% male and 100% man. And so does the UK Equality Act 2010.

Posted on a Reddit Transgender sub, Tandora will be generously fêted for this absurdity. On Mumsnet feminist boards, Tandora will be told, also in a large volume of replies, that the exact same opinions are laughably silly. No coordination will be needed to generate either set of responses.

It's like going to St James Park, emptying an enormous sack of walnuts over your head, and then complaining that the squirrels are a menace. Alleging that they are viciously coordinated in their bullying attacks, and just won't leave you alone. Despite you asking them so very nicely to ignore your walnuts and return to their trees.

Whhhhhhyyyyyyyy are they being so mean to me? I'm just here enjoying my delicious nuts in a completely normal and unremarkable manner. I'm being cruelly mobbed here. Punish the squirrels. Punish them all.

Damn the squirrels. Damn all the squirrels!

(Epic revenge film in there somewhere)

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