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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sexism/other issues in the Green party England & Wales - Discussion Thread 2

889 replies

fromorbit · 08/12/2025 14:07

Zack Polanski is making things bigger again.

We need a new thread to discuss all his antics and the ongoing situation in the Green party which is getting more ever more bizarre. While it is getting ever strident in denying biology it also has Mothin Ali as deputy Leader who clearly doesn't believe in trans thinking, but cleverly sidesteps round talking about it.

The fight back from Green Women's Declaration,(https://www.greenwomensdeclaration.uk/ ) continues and the court cases against GPEW from Emma Bateman and Shahrar Ali are developing.

In Bristol the Women of Wessex are causing panic amongst the ruling Green council just by turning up and asking questions. This may result in another court case.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5455053-bristol-council-is-about-to-be-sued

With local elections in May and elections in Wales incoming lots more to discuss and call out.

First thread - where you can follow the rise of Hypno Boobs:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5328986-greens-internal-drama-warms-up

Note the Scottish Greens which are a separate party to the Green Party England/Wales have their own thread for all their drama. They split off because GPEW didn't hate biology enough at the time.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5313420-scottish-greens-being-sexist-again?page=1

Green Women's Declaration | Support Women's Rights Now

Learn about the Green Women’s Declaration advocating for sex-based rights within Green politics, supporting women, and promoting ecofeminism and free speech.

https://www.greenwomensdeclaration.uk

OP posts:
Thread gallery
102
cariadlet · 23/01/2026 17:34

Thanks @lcakethereforeIam

Lalgarh · 23/01/2026 21:24

There's also a thread set up about it.

Couple of Green things in the news

New green party ad featuring Zack running a bit. Maybe like that training scene in Rocky. Central theme being "running to stand still"

https://nitter.net/TheGreenParty/status/2014412751410758038#m

Although "reading glasses are too expensive so you have to squint" seems a bit flimsy as an example of the cost of living crisis. Supermarkets and discount shops sell reading glasses for barely a fiver.

Also maybe,... Isn't stuff like meat and some of the foodstuffs, energy and holidays actually supposed to cost more in a green economy to reflect their true environmental cost? How would a degrowth economy make things cheaper: chronic deflation?

1984Now · 23/01/2026 21:31

Lalgarh · 23/01/2026 21:27

He's also called on Starmer to expel US troops from the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jan/20/uk-should-consider-expelling-us-forces-from-british-bases-says-zack-polanski
I suppose it's a high risk high reward strategy as it will bring him to the attention of Drumpf, which like Mamdani, might bring him additional publicity

Child.

ArabellaSaurus · 23/01/2026 21:41

Lalgarh · 23/01/2026 21:24

There's also a thread set up about it.

Couple of Green things in the news

New green party ad featuring Zack running a bit. Maybe like that training scene in Rocky. Central theme being "running to stand still"

https://nitter.net/TheGreenParty/status/2014412751410758038#m

Although "reading glasses are too expensive so you have to squint" seems a bit flimsy as an example of the cost of living crisis. Supermarkets and discount shops sell reading glasses for barely a fiver.

Also maybe,... Isn't stuff like meat and some of the foodstuffs, energy and holidays actually supposed to cost more in a green economy to reflect their true environmental cost? How would a degrowth economy make things cheaper: chronic deflation?

As far as I can tell his 'economic strategy' and promise is that he'll take all the money off the rich people and hand it to the poor people. I honestly dont think it goes any deeper than that, at all. Tiktok politics.

ArabellaSaurus · 23/01/2026 21:42

Also yes, reading glasses is bloody odd thing to choose. I suspect he has no idea what its actually like to be skint.

1984Now · 23/01/2026 22:02

ArabellaSaurus · 23/01/2026 21:41

As far as I can tell his 'economic strategy' and promise is that he'll take all the money off the rich people and hand it to the poor people. I honestly dont think it goes any deeper than that, at all. Tiktok politics.

Polanski is talking about glasses being too pricey do you have to squint.
Nope, I'm squinting at this ad because I can't believe he is a party leader.

1984Now · 23/01/2026 22:09

ArabellaSaurus · 23/01/2026 21:41

As far as I can tell his 'economic strategy' and promise is that he'll take all the money off the rich people and hand it to the poor people. I honestly dont think it goes any deeper than that, at all. Tiktok politics.

Squinting at this video, all I can see is his acting training, his speech modulation from his hypnotherapy training, and his LD activist days training him to be Green Party leader. The guy is as fake as his acting, as fake as his cure for women having boobs they feel need to be bigger, and as fake as every other "politics as showbiz" bits that he does, whether on C4 or officially for the party, like this one.
If he's the answer, I'd love to know what brain dead Millennial social justice activist question was asked.

RainbowBagels · 23/01/2026 23:36

Is it wrong that I quite fancy using a fae/faer pronoun? Mythical being wise I think I'd choose Medusa!

fromorbit · 24/01/2026 09:03

fromorbit · 08/01/2026 05:44

Emma Bateman was in court on Monday for the next stage in her important case against the Greens. Her case looks pretty strong.

https://nitter.net/EmmaBatemanGPW/status/2008905815055335872

Emma Bateman

Me v TheGreenParty:
I was in court on 5th Jan for my case against the Greens It was only for a 'strike out and costs application', not the main case. I amended my claim in 2025 after I changed solicitors, and the party say that resulted in them wasting costs of over £13,000
1/4

The Green Party wants me to pay those £13,000 costs now before the case goes further.
My barrister suggested that it appeared the Party was using costs as a weapon against me to try to shut down my case, but I will not be intimidated into silence by the threat of costs.
2/4

The Greens were also trying to strike out bits of my claim, but on 30-12-25 they withdrew a lot of their strike out application.
My barrister will be seeking redress from the Party to cover the wasted costs I spent preparing for parts of the strike out the Greens withdrew.
3/4

The judge was puzzled by TheGreenParty maths, and how they reached the £13,000 figure, and has reserved judgement to a later date.
Whatever blocks the party throws, I have a good team and we will win.
Please support me if you can

The new article on Emma's case and developments in her case highlights how much trouble the Greens are in.

Remember for some Greens this nonsense is more important than the environment and they are so overwhelmed by hate they screwed up their own cases. It will take a while but it it will take them down as long as heroes like Emma fight back.

OP posts:
fromorbit · 24/01/2026 09:31

RainbowBagels · 23/01/2026 23:36

Is it wrong that I quite fancy using a fae/faer pronoun? Mythical being wise I think I'd choose Medusa!

Of course it is superficially attractive, but note how it destroys the secular narrative. This is supposed to be a solid secular thing, something you can analyse and label and have rules for.

In reality it is the worst thing of all a religious system which doesn't accept it is religious. There are special magic people to whom rules don't apply. As soon as you look at it makes no sense.

There are all sorts of weird, but often ok people doing pagan stuff, witchcraft, and being obsessed with fairy lore. They get to do it, others get to criticise them. You can go round being ultra magical or religious in all sorts of ways, we as a society have designed ways to limit the power of supernatural religion. For safeguarding reasons and also because religion can be really really dumb.

You can say you are medusa, a wizard, a Priest whatever, but the rules the laws always apply. Notice trans types are often drawn to fringe religious beliefs, but they can undermine the useful aspects of religion how at its best can form community and support our lives. Look at the way they are desperate to claim feminine witchcraft has nothing to do with women's bodies and have tried to wreck the pagan community. Witch hunting witches who thing wwomen are a thing. The pattern always repeats.

A lot of trans people thirty years ago would have been religious types, some of them predator religious people, or power hungry ones, others harmless. The thing is you would be able to call them out for their abuses and cult like behaviour. There is a space for religious sceptics. It took centuries to create it.

We had to do that all over again for gender ideology.

OP posts:
ArabellaSaurus · 24/01/2026 09:39

1984Now · 23/01/2026 22:09

Squinting at this video, all I can see is his acting training, his speech modulation from his hypnotherapy training, and his LD activist days training him to be Green Party leader. The guy is as fake as his acting, as fake as his cure for women having boobs they feel need to be bigger, and as fake as every other "politics as showbiz" bits that he does, whether on C4 or officially for the party, like this one.
If he's the answer, I'd love to know what brain dead Millennial social justice activist question was asked.

Absolutely. Slick videos and acting skills do not make a good politician. But they'll be enough to convince people who are desperate for someone to promise them easy answers.

RainbowBagels · 24/01/2026 09:47

fromorbit · 24/01/2026 09:31

Of course it is superficially attractive, but note how it destroys the secular narrative. This is supposed to be a solid secular thing, something you can analyse and label and have rules for.

In reality it is the worst thing of all a religious system which doesn't accept it is religious. There are special magic people to whom rules don't apply. As soon as you look at it makes no sense.

There are all sorts of weird, but often ok people doing pagan stuff, witchcraft, and being obsessed with fairy lore. They get to do it, others get to criticise them. You can go round being ultra magical or religious in all sorts of ways, we as a society have designed ways to limit the power of supernatural religion. For safeguarding reasons and also because religion can be really really dumb.

You can say you are medusa, a wizard, a Priest whatever, but the rules the laws always apply. Notice trans types are often drawn to fringe religious beliefs, but they can undermine the useful aspects of religion how at its best can form community and support our lives. Look at the way they are desperate to claim feminine witchcraft has nothing to do with women's bodies and have tried to wreck the pagan community. Witch hunting witches who thing wwomen are a thing. The pattern always repeats.

A lot of trans people thirty years ago would have been religious types, some of them predator religious people, or power hungry ones, others harmless. The thing is you would be able to call them out for their abuses and cult like behaviour. There is a space for religious sceptics. It took centuries to create it.

We had to do that all over again for gender ideology.

Totally agree with you, especially about the persecution of women ( often women who treated other women in childbirth and for ailments) as 'witches'. Its such a stupid thing to say you are. You can't be a 'mythical creature' because its a myth.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/01/2026 10:11

fromorbit · 24/01/2026 09:31

Of course it is superficially attractive, but note how it destroys the secular narrative. This is supposed to be a solid secular thing, something you can analyse and label and have rules for.

In reality it is the worst thing of all a religious system which doesn't accept it is religious. There are special magic people to whom rules don't apply. As soon as you look at it makes no sense.

There are all sorts of weird, but often ok people doing pagan stuff, witchcraft, and being obsessed with fairy lore. They get to do it, others get to criticise them. You can go round being ultra magical or religious in all sorts of ways, we as a society have designed ways to limit the power of supernatural religion. For safeguarding reasons and also because religion can be really really dumb.

You can say you are medusa, a wizard, a Priest whatever, but the rules the laws always apply. Notice trans types are often drawn to fringe religious beliefs, but they can undermine the useful aspects of religion how at its best can form community and support our lives. Look at the way they are desperate to claim feminine witchcraft has nothing to do with women's bodies and have tried to wreck the pagan community. Witch hunting witches who thing wwomen are a thing. The pattern always repeats.

A lot of trans people thirty years ago would have been religious types, some of them predator religious people, or power hungry ones, others harmless. The thing is you would be able to call them out for their abuses and cult like behaviour. There is a space for religious sceptics. It took centuries to create it.

We had to do that all over again for gender ideology.

The other huge tell is of course that while you can have neo-pronouns and labels for people who feel their demi-boiness o their faeness or their femmeness is a significant feature, you absolutely can't, hands to face in horror at the thought, have a pronoun and a label for people who feel being of the female biological sex is a significant feature.

1984Now · 24/01/2026 10:57

fromorbit · 24/01/2026 09:31

Of course it is superficially attractive, but note how it destroys the secular narrative. This is supposed to be a solid secular thing, something you can analyse and label and have rules for.

In reality it is the worst thing of all a religious system which doesn't accept it is religious. There are special magic people to whom rules don't apply. As soon as you look at it makes no sense.

There are all sorts of weird, but often ok people doing pagan stuff, witchcraft, and being obsessed with fairy lore. They get to do it, others get to criticise them. You can go round being ultra magical or religious in all sorts of ways, we as a society have designed ways to limit the power of supernatural religion. For safeguarding reasons and also because religion can be really really dumb.

You can say you are medusa, a wizard, a Priest whatever, but the rules the laws always apply. Notice trans types are often drawn to fringe religious beliefs, but they can undermine the useful aspects of religion how at its best can form community and support our lives. Look at the way they are desperate to claim feminine witchcraft has nothing to do with women's bodies and have tried to wreck the pagan community. Witch hunting witches who thing wwomen are a thing. The pattern always repeats.

A lot of trans people thirty years ago would have been religious types, some of them predator religious people, or power hungry ones, others harmless. The thing is you would be able to call them out for their abuses and cult like behaviour. There is a space for religious sceptics. It took centuries to create it.

We had to do that all over again for gender ideology.

Brilliant post.
Can you imagine what would happen if someone well known and well loved in the middle of an interview broadcast across primetime America decried the trans cult like Sinead O'Connor in the mid 90s laid into the Catholic Church and their abuse?

SionnachRuadh · 24/01/2026 12:28

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/01/2026 10:11

The other huge tell is of course that while you can have neo-pronouns and labels for people who feel their demi-boiness o their faeness or their femmeness is a significant feature, you absolutely can't, hands to face in horror at the thought, have a pronoun and a label for people who feel being of the female biological sex is a significant feature.

We often forget, the Dianic Wiccans were one of the first groups targeted, because an explicitly women-only group that didn't allow special men to join couldn't be tolerated.

The Wiccan community had long been gay-friendly - which I suspect had a lot to do with Doreen Valiente living in Brighton - but even the less feminist parts knew they were a fertility religion centred around the polarity of female and male sexed bodies.

But they were also a community that, because of the demographics they attracted, were very vulnerable to "woke" fads and being taken over by activists. I don't know what the default belief is among young women on the Wiccan scene, but I assume it's some nonsense about gendered souls.

There's some theme here about people with fringe identities or personalities being drawn to fringe religions, but also fringe religions that don't have cultish/authoritarian setups are also easy to take over. It's similar to how Nordic neopagan groups always end up being infiltrated by neo-nazis, unless a group has a particularly tough and charismatic leader who's determined to keep them out.

SionnachRuadh · 24/01/2026 13:19

I mean I yield to nobody in my distaste for Scientology, but you can't practice entryism in Scientology. They have an extremely authoritarian organisation that's set up to prevent that sort of thing.

If you're an attractive young woman with a phone, it's childishly easy to become a WitchTok influencer. You don't even need more than a surface level knowledge of witchcraft or occultism, because 80% of the time you'll be talking about Trump.

1984Now · 24/01/2026 13:25

SionnachRuadh · 24/01/2026 12:28

We often forget, the Dianic Wiccans were one of the first groups targeted, because an explicitly women-only group that didn't allow special men to join couldn't be tolerated.

The Wiccan community had long been gay-friendly - which I suspect had a lot to do with Doreen Valiente living in Brighton - but even the less feminist parts knew they were a fertility religion centred around the polarity of female and male sexed bodies.

But they were also a community that, because of the demographics they attracted, were very vulnerable to "woke" fads and being taken over by activists. I don't know what the default belief is among young women on the Wiccan scene, but I assume it's some nonsense about gendered souls.

There's some theme here about people with fringe identities or personalities being drawn to fringe religions, but also fringe religions that don't have cultish/authoritarian setups are also easy to take over. It's similar to how Nordic neopagan groups always end up being infiltrated by neo-nazis, unless a group has a particularly tough and charismatic leader who's determined to keep them out.

I'm formally an atheist, but as I've got older, call myself spiritual agnostic, and in many ways, a cultural Christian. I actually find I struggle with the rigid humourless mindset of so many Dawkins and Hitchens acolytes I used to ally to. Much prefer the company of Christians, people genuinely spiritual in outlook.
Living up in E. Anglia/the Fens, I'm taking more and more of an interest in local folklore, history of witches etc.
What's interesting is that my wife and I attend a few culture festivals up here around this subject, this is my first time hanging out with the Wicca/alternative religions/white magic crowd.
And despite everyone being generally pretty friendly, I find that in the area specifically of trans ideology, as a GC, there is nothing in common with the dozens I talk to, they're all rigidly TWAW, to the point I feel a definite closing down of the conversation if I even lightly tread onto this territory.
JKR is absolutely reviled, maybe the added frisson being these Millennial TWAW Wicca types would have revered her back when they started reading HP, now she is the devil.
We watched a short film set in Civil War era about women who were midwives and herbalists, rounded up as witches. It was a feminist piece of work about men invading women. If I'd stuck my hand up to ask the filmmaker if it's ok for men who consider themselves women to insert themselves into those all-women groups, I'd have been quite the outsider in the room.
Not a group of people that I could easily spend lots of time with (how I felt about Catholics when I rebelled against religion as a teen).

AnneWhittle · 24/01/2026 18:52

fascinating !
and to me that says that the engagement with and understanding of nature of these neo pagans/wiccans whatever is actually quite shallow
agree about the humourlessness of the atheists and don't get me started on the disappointment that is the British Humanist Society.

1984Now · 24/01/2026 19:08

AnneWhittle · 24/01/2026 18:52

fascinating !
and to me that says that the engagement with and understanding of nature of these neo pagans/wiccans whatever is actually quite shallow
agree about the humourlessness of the atheists and don't get me started on the disappointment that is the British Humanist Society.

That's probably a bit unfair, I've learnt that my pride in being GC is very Marmite depending on the situation. The vibe I've felt a few times is that Wicca/paganism/alternative religions/new age/the wacky end of alternative medicine/astrology etc are all very or extremely TRA/gender identity friendly.
I kind of get it, the current schtick is that binary sex is a white Western colonial construct, something to beat non conformity with.
So, as we've moved away from a formal Christian faith in the UK to a non descript secular melange of many things, trans ideology seens consistent with many pagan/alternative religions and movements/lifestyles that we're suffocated by Christianity, and also pushes against (and through) social norms, is TRANSgressive.
For someone like me expressing a GC view is gonna look like I'm the establishment guy, holding into outmoded and disingenuous Christian/Enlightenment binary ways of thinking.
Because, not only is a belief in trans ideology kicking back against organized religion, it's also dismissing the scientific method, wisdom and observable reality.
Nice people otherwise. Lol.

AnneWhittle · 24/01/2026 19:16

OMG the Enlightenment. Worst thing ever.
😆

1984Now · 24/01/2026 19:30

AnneWhittle · 24/01/2026 19:16

OMG the Enlightenment. Worst thing ever.
😆

Well, the Naturalism/Romantic movement was a reflex spasm to everything the Enlightenment and consequent Western imperial/industrial revolution/colonialist explosion stood for.
Byron and his lovely chums really found it a struggle.
I very much see Paganism Wicca New Age as a hankering for that, and trans as a phenomenon absolutely sits consistently with that movement.
I'd also say it's a modern iteration of Gnosticism from the early days of Christianity evolving.
Of course, the Romantics could never have helped women get the vote, civil rights movements, economic growth, public spending....but would promote policies like whether men should be allowed into women's sports and prisons.
It's fascinating that in the 80s, as Christianity was really receding in the West, there was this rebirth of interest in New Age, Buddhism, and the explosion in self help, self actualisation, astrology, UFO hunting, recovered memory malarkey, Scientology.
But none of these broke into the mainstream to become "received wisdom" by elites, policy makers, vast numbers of intelligent movers and shakers.
Yet a half century later, trans ideology, critical race theory etc is now "mainstream" in the strata that run society.
Never have the so called elites in charge of us been so close to the airy fairy musings of the people I meet at those alternative culture festivals.

AnneWhittle · 24/01/2026 20:02

maybe its the arts/science divide

fromorbit · 25/01/2026 08:27

1984Now · 24/01/2026 13:25

I'm formally an atheist, but as I've got older, call myself spiritual agnostic, and in many ways, a cultural Christian. I actually find I struggle with the rigid humourless mindset of so many Dawkins and Hitchens acolytes I used to ally to. Much prefer the company of Christians, people genuinely spiritual in outlook.
Living up in E. Anglia/the Fens, I'm taking more and more of an interest in local folklore, history of witches etc.
What's interesting is that my wife and I attend a few culture festivals up here around this subject, this is my first time hanging out with the Wicca/alternative religions/white magic crowd.
And despite everyone being generally pretty friendly, I find that in the area specifically of trans ideology, as a GC, there is nothing in common with the dozens I talk to, they're all rigidly TWAW, to the point I feel a definite closing down of the conversation if I even lightly tread onto this territory.
JKR is absolutely reviled, maybe the added frisson being these Millennial TWAW Wicca types would have revered her back when they started reading HP, now she is the devil.
We watched a short film set in Civil War era about women who were midwives and herbalists, rounded up as witches. It was a feminist piece of work about men invading women. If I'd stuck my hand up to ask the filmmaker if it's ok for men who consider themselves women to insert themselves into those all-women groups, I'd have been quite the outsider in the room.
Not a group of people that I could easily spend lots of time with (how I felt about Catholics when I rebelled against religion as a teen).

Agreed many of the modern pagan crowd are TWAW and are general stereotypical Greens/ leftists. Bear in mind many practice solitary or in small/family groups though. I suspect there are a lot of terfy witches doing that rather than biting their tongues in open groups Groupthink is always a thing. Especially lets face it if there are a lot of women who generally excel in enforcing norms of "niceness".

These are traditional Green supporter types. The thing is not all women are that nice especially as they get older they are more interested in truth. They like saying things and don't care if it upsets other women, or even, shock horror, men.

We saw this in a recent row inside the Pagan Federation. Thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5345317-witch-thrown-off-druid-training-course-in-trans-row?

Which is why the Greens are in trouble long term, Why there are still a whole bunch of pesky Greens who refuse to stop thinking biology is real. Like Emma.

Witch ‘thrown off druid training course’ in trans row | Mumsnet

This is a story with a bit of everything (not making light of it, sounds like Angela had the usual gruelling time in the face of typical TRA shenaniga...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5345317-witch-thrown-off-druid-training-course-in-trans-row

OP posts:
FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/01/2026 08:54

AnneWhittle · 24/01/2026 18:52

fascinating !
and to me that says that the engagement with and understanding of nature of these neo pagans/wiccans whatever is actually quite shallow
agree about the humourlessness of the atheists and don't get me started on the disappointment that is the British Humanist Society.

Based on the wiccans and pagans I know, "shallow" is pretty much expected.

Lovely sweet people, but not deep thinkers. Or at least, only deep thinking within a very narrow and specific worldview.

Swipe left for the next trending thread