Page 8 | Ofcom will now investigate Talk Tv re transphobia.

Imnobody4 · 2025-12-04T21:33:43+00:00

Here we go again. From Good Law Project: ^We said we’d sue over Ofcom’s decision to dismiss 22,000 complaints about transphobia on TalkTV – now the regulator has caved.^ ^But we had monitored its output for July 2025, a month in which it carried 11 discussions on trans people. And in every discussion, its hosts and guests consistently spouted transphobic views. TalkTV’s stance mirrors the broader editorial position of its sister newspaper The Times, whose toxic and intellectually dishonest campaign against trans people we believe to be a contributor to the rise in hate crime against them.^ https://x.com/JuliaHB1/status/1996576537894703427?t=VgmnlP9LETiwrihlgEkCqA&s=09 Among my misdeeds, apparently, is that I said this on air: "By definition, if you’ve had to get a piece of paper to say that you are a woman, you must accept then that you are man." I'm happy to be found guilty of defending women's rights and safety, knowing the *actual* law, understanding basic biology and knowing what a woman is. 🤷🏻♀️

OnlyMabelInTheBuilding · 06/12/2025 08:58

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 08:51

I don’t believe that the poster involved proved anything except that they attempted to use obfuscation to prove their original false accusation to be true.

I think that is pretty clear by now that this is all this political movement has. Emotional reasoning, emotional manipulation such as declarations of ‘phobia’ and falsehoods.

That’s all they ever had, but thankfully the tide is turning, less and less people are scared of them now.

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 08:59

PodMom · 06/12/2025 08:40

Ok. So you agree if your birth certificate issued at birth doesn’t say you’re female then you are not female. Great, we’re all on the same page 👍.

Any male who has had to get an extra “certificate “ to say they have decided they want to live as a woman is not actually female. And by law is not actually a woman. As seen in recent court cases.

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So you agree if your birth certificate issued at birth doesn’t say you’re female then you are not female

Wait. So your logic is that for cis people the administrative identity document establishes the fact of their identity. Lacking one is proof you are not female.

But for trans woman the administrative ID document establishes that their identity is fake. The fact they have one proves they are not female.

BettyBooper · 06/12/2025 09:04

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 08:51

I don’t believe that the poster involved proved anything except that they attempted to use obfuscation to prove their original false accusation to be true.

I think that is pretty clear by now that this is all this political movement has. Emotional reasoning, emotional manipulation such as declarations of ‘phobia’ and falsehoods.

Agreed.

But soooo many have been convinced by it. By the 'i know you are, you said you are, but what am I?' level of argument.

Men who have a special certificate are women! Because they have a certificate!

Men who say they are women are women! Because they say so!

I mean, really?

And when anyone points out the gaping flaws in these ridiculous arguments it's TRANSPHOBIA!!!

Stark, raving bonkers. But it is everywhere.

BettyBooper · 06/12/2025 09:08

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 08:59

So you agree if your birth certificate issued at birth doesn’t say you’re female then you are not female

Wait. So your logic is that for cis people the administrative identity document establishes the fact of their identity. Lacking one is proof you are not female.

But for trans woman the administrative ID document establishes that their identity is fake. The fact they have one proves they are not female.

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Humans cannot change sex.

MalagaNights · 06/12/2025 09:10

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 07:45

The logic/ claim in the statement is that:

by definition

if you need a piece of paper to say you are X

you must accept then that you are not X

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No that's not the logic.

The logic is: A certificate is not necessarily proof of a material reality.

It is an administrative process which can be corrupted and warped but that doesn't change reality.

If I were suddenly allowed to change my place of birth on my birth certificate I still would have been born in the original place, whatever the certificate says.

If I didn't have a birth certificate or a passport I'd still be female.

Certificates or ID should be accurate reflections of an agreed reality, but this is not always the case and we are in a particularly absurd example of this historically.

OnlyMabelInTheBuilding · 06/12/2025 09:12

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 08:59

So you agree if your birth certificate issued at birth doesn’t say you’re female then you are not female

Wait. So your logic is that for cis people the administrative identity document establishes the fact of their identity. Lacking one is proof you are not female.

But for trans woman the administrative ID document establishes that their identity is fake. The fact they have one proves they are not female.

Show quote history

You’re going round and round, twisting language and now throwing in phrases like ‘cis‘ in the hope that someone will say something you can claim actually means you’re right.

In reality, it’s very simple. You are either born a man or a woman. This can’t change. Bits of paper don’t change biology. Write a long, meandering reply all you like, you can’t change fact.

The GLP never win anything; I doubt they’ll start now. This is JM’s personal crusade as he’s transed his child, and as Helen Joyce says, these will be the people fighting to the last, as that’s preferable to facing what they’ve done.

MalagaNights · 06/12/2025 09:15

I have a certificate to say I was confirmed as a Catholic.

I don't expect other people to state a belief in angels or the resurrection when I'm around.
I also tolerate people with scornful views of Catholics.

My certificate is merely a representation of my belief it does not demand anyone else believes what I believe.

If someone said i I wasn't a Catholic, I'd think how odd, yes i am and move on.

I wouldn't cry huge offence and run to get my confirmation certificate.

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 09:46

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 08:59

So you agree if your birth certificate issued at birth doesn’t say you’re female then you are not female

Wait. So your logic is that for cis people the administrative identity document establishes the fact of their identity. Lacking one is proof you are not female.

But for trans woman the administrative ID document establishes that their identity is fake. The fact they have one proves they are not female.

Show quote history

You are twisting in the wind trying to find anything to support your claims.

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 09:53

MalagaNights · 06/12/2025 09:10

No that's not the logic.

The logic is: A certificate is not necessarily proof of a material reality.

It is an administrative process which can be corrupted and warped but that doesn't change reality.

If I were suddenly allowed to change my place of birth on my birth certificate I still would have been born in the original place, whatever the certificate says.

If I didn't have a birth certificate or a passport I'd still be female.

Certificates or ID should be accurate reflections of an agreed reality, but this is not always the case and we are in a particularly absurd example of this historically.

Show quote history

No that's not the logic.
The logic is: A certificate is not necessarily proof of a material reality.
It is an administrative process which can be corrupted and warped but that doesn't change reality.

Thats not what the statement says at all though. 🥴

The statement says,

by definition if you need a piece of paper to say X , you therefore have to accept you are not X.

The extent to which people will just insert words and pretend they are there to justify their pov is quite something.

Namelessnelly · 06/12/2025 09:54

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 08:59

So you agree if your birth certificate issued at birth doesn’t say you’re female then you are not female

Wait. So your logic is that for cis people the administrative identity document establishes the fact of their identity. Lacking one is proof you are not female.

But for trans woman the administrative ID document establishes that their identity is fake. The fact they have one proves they are not female.

Show quote history

The fact they have to go to amend their birth certificate shows they’re not female. I mean, no woman has to go and amend her birth certificate to show she’s female.

Namelessnelly · 06/12/2025 09:56

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 09:53

No that's not the logic.
The logic is: A certificate is not necessarily proof of a material reality.
It is an administrative process which can be corrupted and warped but that doesn't change reality.

Thats not what the statement says at all though. 🥴

The statement says,

by definition if you need a piece of paper to say X , you therefore have to accept you are not X.

The extent to which people will just insert words and pretend they are there to justify their pov is quite something.

Edited

Show quote history

You're just not getting it are you. Maybe a nice cup of tea and a biscuit will help, get your blood sugar up. It helps with critical thinking and cognitive processes.

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 09:57

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 09:53

No that's not the logic.
The logic is: A certificate is not necessarily proof of a material reality.
It is an administrative process which can be corrupted and warped but that doesn't change reality.

Thats not what the statement says at all though. 🥴

The statement says,

by definition if you need a piece of paper to say X , you therefore have to accept you are not X.

The extent to which people will just insert words and pretend they are there to justify their pov is quite something.

Edited

Show quote history

And twist.

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 09:59

Gosh. Imagine thinking that there are no sentences with implied prior knowledge needed to understand what they are intending to communicate.

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:00

Namelessnelly · 06/12/2025 09:54

The fact they have to go to amend their birth certificate shows they’re not female. I mean, no woman has to go and amend her birth certificate to show she’s female.

Show quote history

and yet someone else just helpfully pointed out:

A certificate is not necessarily proof of a material reality.
It is an administrative process which can be corrupted and warped

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 10:01

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:00

and yet someone else just helpfully pointed out:

A certificate is not necessarily proof of a material reality.
It is an administrative process which can be corrupted and warped

Show quote history

And twist.

Namelessnelly · 06/12/2025 10:03

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:00

and yet someone else just helpfully pointed out:

A certificate is not necessarily proof of a material reality.
It is an administrative process which can be corrupted and warped

Show quote history

Exactly so we need to stop issuing GRC don’t we. People just go by the sex on their birth certificates and use the facilities relevant to the sex on their birth certificate. Awesome. We be solved it. Have another biscuit in celebration.

TheBeaTgoeson1 · 06/12/2025 10:04

Talk TV 🤢

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:05

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 09:59

Gosh. Imagine thinking that there are no sentences with implied prior knowledge needed to understand what they are intending to communicate.

Edited

Of course there are, and that's exactly my point.

The "implied prior knowledge" behind this statement is that trans identity is fake.

Which is why it is a (transphobic) rhetorical statement .
Although it is disguised as / purports to be a conditional logic statement showing how one fact leads to another based on logical reasoning (if this, then that).

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 10:09

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:05

Of course there are, and that's exactly my point.

The "implied prior knowledge" behind this statement is that trans identity is fake.

Which is why it is a (transphobic) rhetorical statement .
Although it is disguised as / purports to be a conditional logic statement showing how one fact leads to another based on logical reasoning (if this, then that).

Edited

Show quote history

And twist.

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 10:11

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:05

Of course there are, and that's exactly my point.

The "implied prior knowledge" behind this statement is that trans identity is fake.

Which is why it is a (transphobic) rhetorical statement .
Although it is disguised as / purports to be a conditional logic statement showing how one fact leads to another based on logical reasoning (if this, then that).

Edited

Show quote history

You are twisting words to fit your accusation. But you cannot make a coherent and fact based argument that supports your accusation.

OnAShooglyPeg · 06/12/2025 10:11

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:05

Of course there are, and that's exactly my point.

The "implied prior knowledge" behind this statement is that trans identity is fake.

Which is why it is a (transphobic) rhetorical statement .
Although it is disguised as / purports to be a conditional logic statement showing how one fact leads to another based on logical reasoning (if this, then that).

Edited

Show quote history

I'm feeling generous, so I think there may be a misunderstanding of the word "identity". For the purposes of clarity, please can you explain and define your meaning?

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:13

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:05

Of course there are, and that's exactly my point.

The "implied prior knowledge" behind this statement is that trans identity is fake.

Which is why it is a (transphobic) rhetorical statement .
Although it is disguised as / purports to be a conditional logic statement showing how one fact leads to another based on logical reasoning (if this, then that).

Edited

Show quote history

Might help:

Logical Claim

A logical claim is based on reasoning. follows clear reasoning (“if…, "then...). This reasoning can be tested and proven.

Rhetorical Claim

A rhetorical claim is used to persuade, or influence. Relies on (existing) opinion. Evaluated by how convincing it is, not by logic

Helleofabore · 06/12/2025 10:15

And twist.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/12/2025 10:27

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 08:59

So you agree if your birth certificate issued at birth doesn’t say you’re female then you are not female

Wait. So your logic is that for cis people the administrative identity document establishes the fact of their identity. Lacking one is proof you are not female.

But for trans woman the administrative ID document establishes that their identity is fake. The fact they have one proves they are not female.

Show quote history

This was the whole point of the Supreme Court ruling. Women have the biological sex of female. It’s not the certification which counts. A man can have a fake certificate that says he was born a woman. It doesn’t make him a woman under the EA 2010 for the purposes of single sex spaces and other things in the purview of the EA.

MalagaNights · 06/12/2025 10:32

puppymaddness · 06/12/2025 10:05

Of course there are, and that's exactly my point.

The "implied prior knowledge" behind this statement is that trans identity is fake.

Which is why it is a (transphobic) rhetorical statement .
Although it is disguised as / purports to be a conditional logic statement showing how one fact leads to another based on logical reasoning (if this, then that).

Edited

Show quote history

The logical argument proves the premise is false.

I do not need a certificate to prove i am a women. Because it is a material fact.

I can get a certificate saying I'm born female and this is an accurate description of reality. But I do not need one for the fact to remain true.

A man needs a certificate to 'prove' he's a women because the material reality is he's a man. The certificate and his feeling is all he has to this claim.

He can get a certificate to say he's a women but it's not an accurate description of reality.

JHB was logically consistent, everyone understands her point, and it's not transphobic it's just reality.

The fact that reality is upsetting for trans people is not my or GB News' concern.