"Supporting trans colleagues through this difficult time."

[StopTheHyperbole]

So I've NC for this, I'm a fairly regular poster on this board, but I've been pushed to start this thread as I am just in despair at the hyperbolic statements certain people at my place of work are spouting. Ugh!!!!

Anyway, so, I work in the public sector, there was a big gathering of opinions on the workplace, all invited to chat, round tables, discussions etc. Key questions being: what can we do to improve? How do we do things well? What do you think about our organisation? Etc. It's a yearly thing that's gone on for at least 20 years.

One of the colleagues on another table (everyone asked to write down then summarise discussions) said the company could "do more to help support trans colleagues during this extremely difficult time." Silence round the room and then when asked to clarify, they said "due to the supreme court decision."

I had to physically stop myself from sighing out loud as I was right in the eye line of the person who said this. A young, fairly grumpy they/them (actual female though) from a different team. It's just such utter UTTER bullshit. No one challenged this view, a few people NODDED!!! ARGH, it's just so frustrating.

What difficult time? Nothing is difficult??? The court decision just clarified equality law, why the need for this hyperbole? Nobody is banned from anything, this over-dramatic language about a law being clarified to ensure that single sex spaces are respected in certain circumstances is just...nuts.

Anyway I'm venting, but it worries me it's so prevalent at my work, when we should be neutral to activist causes (as a public sector organisation) and it clearly isn't the case. I wish I'd been braver in challenging this arrogant, grumpy young person but I didn't. And I slightly hate myself for it, but I have kids, mortgage and bills to pay. I just can't rock the boat. HR and the internal equality team are very much on board with it all unfortunately.

That's not really true is it.

I remember Ally McBeal having 'the Unisex' and it was considered weird at the time.

Unisex facilities (cubicles with shared sinks) are extremely unusual - they're advertised as single sex generally - in fact I can't think of anywhere I go that doesn't have single sex (fake single sex when the law was being mis-applied)

I’m unlikely to find myself in that position. There are many things I’d like to think I’d say, but probably wouldn’t be quick enough off the mark, in reality!

Something like, I hope we are following the equality act carefully - no one should suffer discrimination!
or
It would be good to make sure everyone covered by the equality act feels comfortable and protected at work.

It’s much more efficient to separate by sex. You can fit more toilets in a smaller space- significantly more, when you bear urinals in mind- and only need san bins in some spaces rather than all.

Single units are not at all practical for bigger, busier places. They work well in areas where you aren’t going to have too many people needing the loo at the same time. Like homes.

I know and I am disappointed in myself. I didn't put all the details in about my workplace so as not to be too identifiable, but sadly it's a very captured organisation and I didn't feel able to pop my head up and speak out. I have said a few neutral things within my own, smaller team (clarifying that the protected characteristic is sex not gender) but the head of equality team, the head of the directorate we are in, the whole organisation basically, really pushes this. So I guess really that the they/them that said this statement knew it was something that could be said with no push back or hostility despite it being completely hyperbolic and not really what the clarification of the law was about. The silencing and cancelling of (primarily women's) voices is quite noticeable and no, I'm not yet ready to do that with bills to pay etc. I just wanted to vent anonymously about it here.

People have lost their jobs for politely and factually making these points. It takes a lot of courage to run that risk. It’s good that sanity is being restored, but I’d applaud and support those who do speak up rather than criticise those who haven’t yet dared.

The thing is, no one is being prevented from accessing anything "necessary". Everyone has access to public toilets; just because they're not ones of your choosing doesn't make it discriminatory. I can't choose to use the men's loos, and why would I want to should I when I have absolutely no right to be in there?

Choice and necessity are two very different things.

Vent away! I’m sure at some point when it’s made clear that many NB’s aren’t actually covered under Gender Reassignment legislation (as per a recent ET), she’ll get her knickers in a twist even more. Just be thankful she’s not in your team.

Yet another example of women being expected to take risks (very real risks of alienation and potential disciplinary proceedings) because men can't just behave themselves and stay out of women's spaces. The labour, and the risk, once again sits with women.

Thank the LORD ( no, I’m not religious 🤣) that I don’t have to deal with any of that shite. I would just say it as it is, I cannot help but say exactly what I think. So i would probably get fired in today’s world!

Who really has time, resources and energy for this?! Most people I know are managing huge workloads, working extra unpaid hours, and juggling diary clashes. As well as tiptoeing around on eggshells trying so hard not to upset the cult.

Meanwhile, we have people who have genuine reason to feel marginalised - employees with disabilities, with caring responsibilities, coping with challenging domestic situations -real difficult times, not made up difficult times - having to make space to listen to this shit.

The sooner this madness is over, the better.

I am and have been excluded from public toilets for a decade since my son grew too old to use the ladies. I don’t see how saying a facility is for a sex you aren’t is particularly offensive. How exactly has anyone been “damaged”? There are presumably toilets and spaces for the sex you are? I can tell you there are achingly few toilets outside private houses that I can use and I seem to manage to live my life.

I would like to let my key stage 2 children play in the toddler section of the soft play, as they would enjoy running around and jumping all over it, but I don’t. It’s not safe or fair. It’s only for toddlers because they need to be separate to be safe and confident.
My older children would choose to enter it and it would make them really happy for a while, but I tell them no, and to think of other more vulnerable people. Is it discrimination? Are their feelings hurt?
Life’s tough like that.

This talk about 'othering' colleagues ignores the fact that anyone adopting pronouns and expecting colleagues to use them - against their own instinct and observation - is making of themself an 'other'; a special case that needs to be consciously centred in everyone else's thinking at all times.

I'm autistic and our autistic staff network has been completely captured to the point it's totally useless for anything other than pronoun related nonsense. Nice to have access to support networks in work for my disability huh?

@Coatsoff42 So true, I remember my children in Reception classes being taught the difference between 'wants' and 'needs'.
Transwomen want access to women's toilets but they need access to a toilet, their need is met by the provision of men's toilets.

I frequently have to use the disabled loo as my gynae and bowel issues mean I need to be able to clean myself in a way that's impossible in a cubicle. So my biology trumps my'choice'.

Tbh no one chooses to go to the loo at all, it's just a biological necessity. There are many ways to express yourself, your place of where to perform these bodily functions is not one of them

Exactly. This is what pisses me off so much. As despite the progress pride lanyards being handed out, the internal emails about all sorts of days to celebrate gender ideology (international pronouns day being one recently) and having to listen to this they/them say this hyperbolic statement, our work is actually not that great with people with actual disabilities, work/life balance issues or for childcare support and promotions.

Having being involved in helping with feedback over the years, time and time again this is raised; how reasonable adjustments need to happen etc,but it never does. There's no real, true equality but the equality team continue to pat themselves on the back, change our words to say people on maternity leave, lots of little things that chip away at morale.

Everyone is busy, everyone is pushed to the max, there's a lot of stress and uncertainty and this is the only thing being pandered to and it's not fair.

Edit: sorry this was meant to be in reply to @OllyBJolly post

The only people being consistently discriminated in the workplace are DISABLED people, not the very occasional blokes wearing frocks and lipstick!!!!

Workplaces should put more effort and money into ensuring that they comply with the DDA and stop pandering to the pathetic entitled male minorities.

Inwardly I would say - it’s gone on long enough buck up and just follow the law - but as I’m retired and never ever ever have to put up with this shit again - whahoo!

My bank won't let me choose which account to access. Apparently I only have the right to access mine not some else's that actually has money in it. Send thoughts and prayers, hold vigils, set up support networks for me. I'm being victimised my choice is so much more important than the so called 'rights' of the account holder. I want it and they won't let me, it's so unfair.

I'll put your cause on the agenda of my next staff meeting, because it's awful that you can't just choose to be me for banking purposes. How can we collectively sleep at night knowing you're perfectly entitled to your own account but can't just choose to have mine. Despicable. (PS when we successfully campaign to change this, please will you pay my bills? Thanks)

I'm glad you understand my pain. As for the bill, sure as long as I can pay from an account of my choice!

Id be interested to know how many transwomen would happily use the women's toilets and she/her pronouns if women's rights hadn't caught up with mens. If the consequence was they could be treated exactly the same as a woman back when women couldn't have their own mortgage, credit cards, vote, get paid the same wage as a man doing the same job etc. I imagine far less would like access to women's toilets if it meant losing their rights they had as a man

The danger for people with trans identities is that private employers are recognising the risks of taking them on and will quietly bin their CVs.

The risk for public sector is that those not wanting to go along with the constant naval gazing will leave.

The demands by the TRAs may continue to shut others up in the work place, but they are not changing opinion to their side.

I think the majority of people were onboard initially (be kind, it's just like LGB). At this point, the only direction of public opinion is going to be backing away towards the door.

Yep @BettyBooper I've been here a while and I'm tempted to get my ducks in a row and start planning in new year for a change. I can't be dealing with the constant prioritisation of an ideology over sensible equality law.