Page 2 | "Supporting trans colleagues through this difficult time."

SternJoyousBeev2 · 04/12/2025 08:21

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 05:40

Shared facilities has been around for decades but interestingly, the 'discomfort' is only new that's hardly a broad grass roots concern rather a fringe one.

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Fabulous, the trans identifying males can share with the other men! You’ve cracked it again.

Greyskybluesky · 04/12/2025 08:29

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 05:40

Shared facilities has been around for decades but interestingly, the 'discomfort' is only new that's hardly a broad grass roots concern rather a fringe one.

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Do you mean the discomfort of women objecting to men in their spaces is new?

If so, it isn't new! Believe me.

Igmum · 04/12/2025 08:32

Thanks @StopTheHyperboleyou’re right it’s overly dramatic misrepresentation (as is much of the rest of the TA agenda). There’s been a couple of people in my workplace who have made vague noises about this/invited people to a demo but fortunately it’s not gone much beyond that. I’m waiting for a few ructions when the high heijuns decide to actually obey the law but there’s plenty of gender neutral toilets around in addition to single sex provision so there shouldn’t really be practical objections here (famous last words).

user1492757084 · 04/12/2025 08:39

I would have said -
"The Supreme Court made it's decision, end of.
That said, every work place should be mindful of any employee who is feeling disheartened or sad for any reason.
A work place needs be welcoming of all personalities and encourage tolerance and kindness.
The toilets are no longer an issue though, The Supreme Court made it's decision."

Teaandtoastserveddaily · 04/12/2025 08:51

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 02:23

Perhaps if you were excluded from being able to use the necessary public facilities of your choice as everyone else has you might appreciate the discriminatory nature of the outcome. Just because it's been deemed by the courts as a more practical outcome doesn't mean there isn't any collateral damage, compromise of rights or hurt involved.

Being sympathetic to other people's hardship however justified the trade offs were that created that hardship is just basic human decency. The idea that work colleagues should be at their leisure to 'educate' their fellow work mates on their 'interpretation' of complex legal decisions where the parliamentary approval of logistics are yet to be decided let alone any cases being tested in court against it doesn't seem appropriate or conducive of a cohesive working relationship.

Ultimately its management's responsibility to do the 'educating' once they are fully aware of what that actually entails which they don't yet & work colleagues being limited to offering their support or not.

Edited

So many words, yet so few coherent points being made!

The matter of which public bathroom to use shouldn't be a choice.

Similarly because i am a human i use a doctor rather than a vet. Because i am not a cat. Men arent women so they shouldnt feel entitled to use womens toilets.
😂😂😂😂

EINSEINSNULL · 04/12/2025 08:56

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 02:23

Perhaps if you were excluded from being able to use the necessary public facilities of your choice as everyone else has you might appreciate the discriminatory nature of the outcome. Just because it's been deemed by the courts as a more practical outcome doesn't mean there isn't any collateral damage, compromise of rights or hurt involved.

Being sympathetic to other people's hardship however justified the trade offs were that created that hardship is just basic human decency. The idea that work colleagues should be at their leisure to 'educate' their fellow work mates on their 'interpretation' of complex legal decisions where the parliamentary approval of logistics are yet to be decided let alone any cases being tested in court against it doesn't seem appropriate or conducive of a cohesive working relationship.

Ultimately its management's responsibility to do the 'educating' once they are fully aware of what that actually entails which they don't yet & work colleagues being limited to offering their support or not.

Edited

What now? Biological men don't get to choose to enter spaces designed for biological women.

Realityisreal · 04/12/2025 08:57

@EmilyinEverton I wrote securing safe space for women who may have previously experienced violence against them to ensure they aren't intimidated out of spaces,
Women may self exclude from spaces where they risk being in enclosed spaces with ANY man, no matter how they identify because of past trauma. Those women are left with no space to use, where is your empathy for them?

Edited 'safe' to 'self' exclude...

MsGinaLinetti · 04/12/2025 08:58

Infuriating, and utterly dispiriting

Frozenbiscuit5 · 04/12/2025 09:07

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 00:58

Neutrality doesn't mean not being supportive of work colleagues who may feel they are being discriminated against or social pariahs or any other perceived difficult time they are going through. While you may not agree with the premise behind a grievance that doesn't mean its being untrue to yourself or being politically bias for not 'correcting them'.The necessity of neutrality being maintained in the public sector is more related to the provision of services to the public than how supportive work colleagues are of each other.

Unless you are compelled to act in any way that contravenes your personal beliefs I really don't see how a work colleague who feels for good reason that others may feel threatened as being 'othered' is such a hanging offence.

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Except when it was the other way round where women felt like they could no longer go to certain groups, or places without the threat of a man being present in the name on inclusivity, they felt discriminated against, but raising this issue got them treated as 'transphobe' 'terfs' etc etc. female nurses taken to court for not being happy about sharing changing rooms with a man who feels like they should have been born a woman and totally ignoring the feelings of the women.
Women don't need to feel bad for the supreme court ruling. If trans people want spaces that don't match their sex, they are free to campaign for another option but not take away the rights of women. GC women would have and probably still would support them for rights to separate spaces, but not to take away the rights of women

Abhannmor · 04/12/2025 09:12

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 05:40

Shared facilities has been around for decades but interestingly, the 'discomfort' is only new that's hardly a broad grass roots concern rather a fringe one.

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I'm in my 70s and the only shared facilities I've come across are single cubicles with a wash basin. Although I've not worked in the public sector for a few years. Not sure how they've been around for decades tbh.

MsGinaLinetti · 04/12/2025 09:17

its a pain in the arse to have to navigate working relationships with people who are pretending to be the opposite sex

Novemberbrain · 04/12/2025 09:21

Realityisreal · 03/12/2025 22:09

I tend to question further to bring a bit of sunlight into the room and also to not to appear to blindly agree, something along the lines of, 'oh, I've seen something about the case, I thought it was about securing safe space for women who may have previously experienced violence against them to ensure they aren't intimidated out of spaces, I know VAWG is, at last, a hot topic, was that the case?'
Not overly subtle but raises an example of women's exclusion while not being something that can be taken as openly hostile nor easily dismissed either!

I've screenshotted this as I'm at a public sector organisation with lots of virtue signalling going on (email newsletters only so far but bound to come up in a room at some point)

eqpi4t2hbsnktd · 04/12/2025 09:25

Please be careful. My DP manages a 'trans woman' (a man) who, since 'transitioning' now needs special treatment for everthing. They all wfh so no toilet / charging room issues.
DP talked to HR and has basically been told he can't sack this person or put them on any performance improvement plan (apparently this person is useless) because they will claim discrimination.

PruthePrune · 04/12/2025 09:36

@MsGinaLinetti

Yup. There is constant walking on eggshells and being so careful what to say so as not to misgender the obvious bloke and woman.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 04/12/2025 09:43

MsGinaLinetti · 04/12/2025 09:17

its a pain in the arse to have to navigate working relationships with people who are pretending to be the opposite sex

It’s a pain in the arse working with people who insist on bringing their whole self to work rather than their professional self.

LeftieRightsHoarder · 04/12/2025 09:46

Realityisreal · 03/12/2025 22:09

I tend to question further to bring a bit of sunlight into the room and also to not to appear to blindly agree, something along the lines of, 'oh, I've seen something about the case, I thought it was about securing safe space for women who may have previously experienced violence against them to ensure they aren't intimidated out of spaces, I know VAWG is, at last, a hot topic, was that the case?'
Not overly subtle but raises an example of women's exclusion while not being something that can be taken as openly hostile nor easily dismissed either!

Well done! It needs saying. But I can understand why others haven’t dared speak up. It’s good that the tide is turning at last, but this mad ideology took hold incredibly fast and ferociously. I’d only have enough nerve to ignore the virtue-signalling comment and hope my eyes weren’t rolling out of my head.

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/12/2025 09:50

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 00:58

Neutrality doesn't mean not being supportive of work colleagues who may feel they are being discriminated against or social pariahs or any other perceived difficult time they are going through. While you may not agree with the premise behind a grievance that doesn't mean its being untrue to yourself or being politically bias for not 'correcting them'.The necessity of neutrality being maintained in the public sector is more related to the provision of services to the public than how supportive work colleagues are of each other.

Unless you are compelled to act in any way that contravenes your personal beliefs I really don't see how a work colleague who feels for good reason that others may feel threatened as being 'othered' is such a hanging offence.

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By publicly adopting a trans identity you are 'othering' yourself.

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/12/2025 09:53

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 05:15

"intended for their sex"

Most households don't have or need urinals to get the job done.

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Most households are not public spaces that are open to any stranger who needs to use them. Public facilities are organised in such a way with a mind to factors such as safeguarding.

HermioneWeasley · 04/12/2025 09:53

I would point out that unless the organisation expressed concern for the difficult time women were going through when FWS lost in the lower courts, then they could be opening themselves up to claims of discrimination.

socialdilemmawhattodo · 04/12/2025 09:53

StopTheHyperbole · 03/12/2025 21:59

So I've NC for this, I'm a fairly regular poster on this board, but I've been pushed to start this thread as I am just in despair at the hyperbolic statements certain people at my place of work are spouting. Ugh!!!!

Anyway, so, I work in the public sector, there was a big gathering of opinions on the workplace, all invited to chat, round tables, discussions etc. Key questions being: what can we do to improve? How do we do things well? What do you think about our organisation? Etc. It's a yearly thing that's gone on for at least 20 years.

One of the colleagues on another table (everyone asked to write down then summarise discussions) said the company could "do more to help support trans colleagues during this extremely difficult time." Silence round the room and then when asked to clarify, they said "due to the supreme court decision."

I had to physically stop myself from sighing out loud as I was right in the eye line of the person who said this. A young, fairly grumpy they/them (actual female though) from a different team. It's just such utter UTTER bullshit. No one challenged this view, a few people NODDED!!! ARGH, it's just so frustrating.

What difficult time? Nothing is difficult??? The court decision just clarified equality law, why the need for this hyperbole? Nobody is banned from anything, this over-dramatic language about a law being clarified to ensure that single sex spaces are respected in certain circumstances is just...nuts.

Anyway I'm venting, but it worries me it's so prevalent at my work, when we should be neutral to activist causes (as a public sector organisation) and it clearly isn't the case. I wish I'd been braver in challenging this arrogant, grumpy young person but I didn't. And I slightly hate myself for it, but I have kids, mortgage and bills to pay. I just can't rock the boat. HR and the internal equality team are very much on board with it all unfortunately.

So you sat there waiting for someone else to speak up and weren't prepared to say anything? Why not? You can be polite and factual, give a couple of appropriate examples relevant to your workplace, then redirect the discussion to a more impactful group of people to support.

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/12/2025 09:55

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 05:31

Men used to (& some still do) make the same senseless argument about women 'imposing' themselves upon 'their' work place 'inevitably' suffering the consequences of sexual harassment. But civilised society begged to differ.

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Women, though, are not the prime perpertrators of sexual crimes or fetsihistic behaviours. Their exclusion from 'male' spaces was not predicated on male safety but on male privilege.

Original poster

StopTheHyperbole · 04/12/2025 09:57

sashh · 04/12/2025 04:56

I think I would have countered with, "I'm all for supporting people in different ways, but we have to be careful to make sure we comply with the Equality Act"

Yes that's a good response. I don't think anyone wants people to feel discriminated against, the particular tone and follow up from this person did make it sound like it was hyperbole as really, nothing has changed and a clarification of the law means that equality is for everyone. The issue is that this has been wilfully or ignorantly misinterpreted for at least 5 years at the detriment to women.

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Shortshriftandlethal · 04/12/2025 09:58

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 05:40

Shared facilities has been around for decades but interestingly, the 'discomfort' is only new that's hardly a broad grass roots concern rather a fringe one.

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No, they haven't, and they are mostly still an outlier.

The concerns and dignity of girls in school has become quite an issue in recent years, with an increase in sexual assaults and 'up-skirting' etc. Schools which have made their toilets unisex have received lots of push-back from parents and the girls don't like them, either. On top of that, schools have a legal duty to provide single sex facilities for children over the age of 10.

MsGinaLinetti · 04/12/2025 10:03

SternJoyousBeev2 · 04/12/2025 09:43

It’s a pain in the arse working with people who insist on bringing their whole self to work rather than their professional self.

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I couldn't agree more.

Original poster

StopTheHyperbole · 04/12/2025 10:06

MsGinaLinetti · 04/12/2025 09:17

its a pain in the arse to have to navigate working relationships with people who are pretending to be the opposite sex

Oh it is indeed. My Christmas night out is looming and I'm going to have to remember to say they/them for this person. I've seen her (because she is clearly a she) give a death stare to someone who called her she within earshot but as he was a man in his 50s that's all he got. I'm sure since she aired how much she didn't enjoy work etc and hammered home this "difficult time" that it's a case of waiting for someone to make a mistake. If I have a few drinks I may slip up. So I'll try and avoid.

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