Girlguiding - Supreme Court Decision email

[ProfMummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking]

Have just had an email from them...

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.

Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement.

No Cis required, Lesbians are women.

But no Lesbian bars and associated places should just be for Lesbians.

Proud to be helping women and girls whilst simultaneously wanting to erode their spaces… make it make sense.

Understanding the boys better is not going to help.

The celebration here is in the return of girls and women being able to have single sex spaces. It is a focus on women and girls' needs and rights. They are just as precious as these boys are. Believing women and girls are equal to men and boys is not 'bigotry'. But refusing to accept other people have rights too, is.

Is there a reason why your daughters chose to join a single sex organisation rather than a mixed sexed one like Scouts?

.... why do you feel lesbians should be forced to have men in their bars?

Has any trans person given an actual reason as to why they can’t start their own groups and include/exclude who they want?

No I said for consent to be present the trans woman has to declare this meaning it does give a level of safeguarding etc

So you are happy for your DD to share open plan changing rooms, sleeping accommodation etc with any male who says they are a girl?

"Hello room full of people not attracted to males. I am a male who wishes to sleep with you"

Like that?

FFS most of us are raising children on the LGBTQ spectrum, are friends, sisters, nieces and cousins of LBG and T people. If you actually read the threads you’d see we have a staggering wealth of experience with the trans youth, with the Tavistock, CAMHS etc. I’ve mopped up the blood, slept on a pullout bed in hospital, been hugged by a TW who completely agrees that things have gone wrong and children need protecting.

Don’t tar us with the brush of your own ignorance.

she joined guides because her friends asked her too. she’s not particularly bothered anout it being all girls, but likes that it’s empowering girls. her friend’s younger sister is trans and she said she’d be happy for her to join guides as she has identified as a girl from the age of four and very much lives her life “as a girl.”

You don't empower girls by allowing boys to join a girls only organisation

Not tarring anyone, but I am reading a lot of anti-trans rhetoric in here. Asking what people are so freaked out about. Sex and gender are complex topics that will not be definitively sorted on mumsnet, obvs…

Quite aside from the fact that one girl's consent cannot be taken as all girls' consent ...

What on earth does 'living life as a girl' even mean?

How does your daughter's friend's brother live 'as a girl'?

Please answer without reference to hair, clothes, activities or things they like that are sexist stereotypes.

No you said:

i believe trans women should be allowed into lesbian bars but I believe it’s a whole other issue around consent if these trans women do not disclose it to cis women. It should be disclosed because it’s part of consent

ie that it does not need to be disclosed to lesbians, only ‘cis’ women have that right.

Some people think they have a gender, everyone has a sex. Separating by gender is not possible as there are umpteen genders. The law is clear, to use the single sex exemption, it has to be done on sex not gender.

So these children become teenagers and have overnight stays away.

Do you think it's still fine for a 'transgirl' to be included and to share rooms with the (actual) girls? Is being concerned about that 'anti-trans rhetoric' according to you? Do the parents have a right to know if this is happening, according to yot?

No one is being banned from joining Guides because they are trans. They are banned from joining because of their sex. Guides is a single sex organisation for girls.

There is no anti trans rhetoric here.

I'm not 'freaked out' about gender non conforming kids. I was a gender non conforming kid.

But they haven't and will never change sex and I wish adults would stop lying to them that this is possible. It is dangerous and unkind.

Yes, I think that was the moment the penny truly dropped for the judges.

I never once implied that only “cis” women deserve to know someone’s trans status while lesbians somehow don’t. That’s nonsense.

My point was simple: any woman having sex with another woman has the right to know her partner’s body and history if that information is relevant to her own boundaries and consent. That applies whether the woman on the receiving end identifies as a lesbian, bisexual, queer, or anything else.

Trans women are women. Full stop. They belong in women’s spaces, including lesbian bars.

But consent isn’t conditional on who you are; it’s universal. If someone has a penis, or had one and has had surgery, or whatever the situation is, and that matters to the person they’re about to sleep with, then it needs to be disclosed. Pretending otherwise isn’t progressive; it’s just ignoring basic bodily autonomy.

This isn’t about “cis” privilege. It’s about not gaslighting women into bed under false pretences.

Lesbians aren’t a special exempt category and neither is anyone else. Everyone gets to decide what they’re comfortable with. That’s it.

i believe trans women should be allowed into lesbian bars

Of course they shouldn't. Why the fuck are they there? The beer?

And we’ve explained as nauseam - girls who join a single sex organisation have the right to the protections implied within that: no male bodied persons sharing their tent, showers or toilets. Safeguarding 101. They also, allowing for the fact many girls are muslim, jewish or even CSA survivors, permitted to expect to have a space with no boys.

They do not need to explain the why or justify that expectation - because it is set out in law that they have the right.

Boys and men are excluded from single sex women’s facilities to reduce the risk of assault, we care less whether a boy/man is wearing a dress or identifies as a cis male… history and crime stats confirm men are a higher risk to women, and boys are a higher risk to girls, such that there is decades of safeguarding protocols to manage that risk.

It isn’t bigotry, it isn’t fear. It about observing safeguarding rules to everyone safe and valuing the privacy, dignity and autonomy of girls in single-sexed spaces.

“Trans women” are men. Full stop. They don’t belong anywhere where women and girls have the expectation of a female only space.