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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Girlguiding - WIN!

129 replies

Elevenseconds · 02/12/2025 14:06

Just received this fabulous message from Girlguiding - hurrah! The tone is peevish, but the result is what matters.

Slight pity that DD is leaving Brownies later this week - and I didn't encourage her to step up for Guides, partly because of their policies worrying me as she got older.

This is a really significant moment.

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

OP posts:
RNApolymerase · 02/12/2025 14:30

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 02/12/2025 14:29

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1pc8kzd/girlguiding_banning_trans_members/

"Absolutely shameful, but also, I don't see the need for Girlguides to exist as an organisation to begin with.
There's no such thing as 'Boy' Scouts in the UK, the Scout Association is fully gender inclusive and doesn't exclude girls, boys or otherwise. Everybody is welcome to learn, socialise and take part in all aspects.
Why is there a gatekept 'girl only' version in the first place? Even setting aside this ridiculous trans ruling, it's past time to either integrate it fully into the Scouts making it fully accessible, or kick the whole organisation to the curb."

Written by a dude I think..

If boys / men can't have things meant for girls / women, then better that those things don't exist at all.

averylongtimeago · 02/12/2025 14:31

Girlguiding have been dragged kicking and screaming into accepting the law.

I don’t suppose for one minute that either Helen Watts or Katy Alsop will get an apology, but a grudging win is still a win.

GG has always allowed male volunteers, as unit helpers for example, but not to make the promise and become Leaders.

The rules for males at residential events are pretty strict (no shared facilities, sleeping quarters or adults being alone with a child for example) and I would hope that this would apply to any trans women volunteers as well.

AppleKatie · 02/12/2025 14:31

Those morons all fail to realise that scouts could be boys only tomorrow if they wanted to be. Trouble is they’d lose more than half their volunteers so….

Eeyorefan · 02/12/2025 14:33

AppleKatie · 02/12/2025 14:31

Those morons all fail to realise that scouts could be boys only tomorrow if they wanted to be. Trouble is they’d lose more than half their volunteers so….

And an awful lot of the Duke of Edinburgh Award volunteers and Young Leaders

EweProfessorSurnameDoctorProfessor · 02/12/2025 14:36

‘We’re so sorry that we have to actually centre girls as a girls organisation but the mean law is making us’

HermioneWeasley · 02/12/2025 14:38

What a bunch of dick pandering twats

Soontobe60 · 02/12/2025 14:41

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 02/12/2025 14:26

I mean, give them more than 19 minutes to update the website maybe :)

I would have expected the website to be updated at the same time as sending out this email TBH. My cynicism leads me to think they’re hoping that sending out that email will distract people from checking out the policies too much.

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 02/12/2025 14:41

Spectacular!

Not the email, which is teeth-grittingly-painful, but the decision.

The clue is in the name. GIRLGUIDES.

Anyone heard anything recently about the Women's Institute? There was a lady who's DH was asking to join, as he had a genuine interest in one of the activities - only to be told that he was the wrong sort of man (the one that didn't feel like a woman)?

Manderleyagain · 02/12/2025 14:55

Good question about WI. I think the WI lawyers were planning to use the defence that including trans women is legal as a positive action scheme. Girl Guides haven't tried to argue the same. Didn't someone on here say that WI and GG use the same legal firm? If so maybe this is an indication of where things are going.

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 15:00

This is bloody brilliant news!!!

MagpiePi · 02/12/2025 15:01

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 02/12/2025 14:41

Spectacular!

Not the email, which is teeth-grittingly-painful, but the decision.

The clue is in the name. GIRLGUIDES.

Anyone heard anything recently about the Women's Institute? There was a lady who's DH was asking to join, as he had a genuine interest in one of the activities - only to be told that he was the wrong sort of man (the one that didn't feel like a woman)?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377946-dh-v-the-wi-thread-2?latest=1

This is the thread about a man joining the WI. They are progressing but are up against the slow legal system.

DH -v- The WI, Thread 2 | Mumsnet

{mention:RareGoalsVerge} rightly pointed out (thank you) on my previous thread that it was getting near the limit and that I should start a second thr...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377946-dh-v-the-wi-thread-2?latest=1

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 15:03

"For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence."

Except for those girls who needed to be very clear that their girl guiding experience would not include male people who declared that they were female, of course. GG missed that bit.... But now they have rectified it.

ScrollingLeaves · 02/12/2025 15:04

Elevenseconds · 02/12/2025 14:06

Just received this fabulous message from Girlguiding - hurrah! The tone is peevish, but the result is what matters.

Slight pity that DD is leaving Brownies later this week - and I didn't encourage her to step up for Guides, partly because of their policies worrying me as she got older.

This is a really significant moment.

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

No good. How appalling. All girls should stay well away.

RessicaJabbit · 02/12/2025 15:05

I'm her to share the celebration 🎉

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 02/12/2025 15:06

And still wholly missing the point that they were not inclusive of girls who couldn't be where boys were, and that their 'heavy heart' and 'respect' is actively anti girls, with those girls being just the boring scum the original organisation was formed for. No recognition of them and the benefits or needs or care for them at all.

I'm afraid I wouldn't let a daughter of mine near them now, and it's very sad. I was a Brownie and a Guide and it was an important part of my childhood. But I don't want girls raised to believe they are not worthy of inclusion or respect and are some kind of second class humans who are the background for the staging of the more important ones. The rhetoric here makes very clear what they would pick up on from this organisation. Another longstanding once great institution killed by being ridden by this movement.

RaininSummer · 02/12/2025 15:07

They may have a heavy heart but I expect the majority of their volunteers will be pleased.

MatronPomfrey · 02/12/2025 15:08

Fantastic news, my daughter thrives in the all girl environment. Facebook comments are of course full of women saying how awful this is. I’m sure the silent majority are relieved.

socialdilemmawhattodo · 02/12/2025 15:09

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/12/2025 14:08

That's a very grudging email Grin

Isn't it just! We've been told by our lawyers we are breaking the law. We dont agree but....

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 02/12/2025 15:10

Women devastated at their daughters no longer being able to access a mixed sex group have Scouts to turn to.

They do not need to deprive other girls of the all-girl environment, or exclude the girls who cannot join mixed sex environments from having anything at all.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 02/12/2025 15:12

I swear I am going to start keeping a record of how many bodies, government and otherwise, witter on at length about their 'respect' and 'inclusiveness' while exclusively meaning men and boys.

charcoalandsugar · 02/12/2025 15:17

We should all write expressing our delight and relief and question this section

"There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.
Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation."

charcoalandsugar · 02/12/2025 15:18

MatronPomfrey · 02/12/2025 15:08

Fantastic news, my daughter thrives in the all girl environment. Facebook comments are of course full of women saying how awful this is. I’m sure the silent majority are relieved.

Can you link to the facebook page so we can express our relief

ThatZanyFatball · 02/12/2025 15:23

Cactiiii · 02/12/2025 14:12

But still trans volunteers allowed…

Yes and per below sounds like they're going to try to force their members to participate in all sorts of pro-trans activities.

"Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us."

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 02/12/2025 15:25

charcoalandsugar · 02/12/2025 15:17

We should all write expressing our delight and relief and question this section

"There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.
Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation."

Well it would not be fair to throw children out tomorrow - they have friends and social networks, they are kids - I'd expect like 3 months or whatever for new arrangements to be made maybe?

SchoolGuidanceQ · 02/12/2025 15:26

Jollyjoy · 02/12/2025 14:27

Just got the email and came here to celebrate. I think I will send a ‘well done’ email to their ‘heavy hearted’ well-being email address. I do understand the tone in the sense of this is real young, troubled boys, who will be getting chucked out and that is really hard. But they should never have put those boys in that position in the first place, they should be apologising to them.

worth commenting on their instagram and facebook if you can face it. At the moment Instagram has the intro line 'this update includes information you may find upsetting. Please take care when reading' and then everyone commenting on how disappointing this new stance is, with plenty of trans flags for good measure