Girlguiding - WIN!

[Elevenseconds]

Just received this fabulous message from Girlguiding - hurrah! The tone is peevish, but the result is what matters.

Slight pity that DD is leaving Brownies later this week - and I didn't encourage her to step up for Guides, partly because of their policies worrying me as she got older.

This is a really significant moment.

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

A Brownie leader saying she would accept transgirls. Well she'll be breaking the law then..!

I do feel sorry for the boys caught up in this. Given the age ranges involved in Brownies and Rainbows, its the parents to blame. But Id also have liked to see numbers, are there 100 children impacted, 1000s? Less than 10?
I emailed to tell GG I was delighted at the news as an ex unit helper. Will see if I get a response.

Possibly Nicky put forward the ‘alternative’ view . . . However, whoever said ‘they’re boys, not trans girls’ - I salute you!

It is fine to have trans volunteers. They just need to be properly vetted like all of our volunteers and also to comply with safeguarding. If they are trans identified males then the risk assessment and safeguarding rules are the same as for all men. They will need to use male or gender neutral facilities if available. Adults should not be sharing with girls anyway regardless of sex.

Also breaking Guiding policies and the code of conduct

I thought HJ was great. Sometimes I think she can be a bit, er, forthright, for the sensibilities of BBC listeners, which inevitably leads to accusations of being unkind blah blah, but I thought she pitched it just right today.

And, yes, I do know that JV snuck in a mention of being unkind. But HJ is right about all the trans groups and mixed sex groups that exist. Why can't the leaders who are upset go and channel their energies into one of these groups?

I the various leader support groups on Facebook (heavily moderated) only comments expressing sorrow and against the new rules are allowed to stand. Dissenting opinions are being removed, including a comment from Katie.
Other posts have had commenting turned off.

We're still busy being kind....

Not an echo chamber at all then....

They are terrified of hearing the heresy. Absolutely petrified.

I don’t want male volunteers in girl guides even if they are men who say they are women.

What sort of man would want to involve himself in girl guides?

Why should little girls be used for male validation in their role play?

The only ok volunteer role would be one behind the scenes where actually it would be fine for any man to be helping out.

Hopefully this is a safe space to express this, because the facebook group I am on definitely isn't. I am sat here shaking my head at the people who are sharing the petition to get GG to reverse the decision. Way to announce to thousands of people that you haven't bothered to read and understand the supreme court ruling!

I hope all of these people so devastated at no longer being able to work with boys redirect to working in boys' services. Frankly it's a bit worrying them continuing to work with a group they have so little care or interest in, and find so uninspiring. It's rather like the rape crisis services who mostly want to work with men - forcing them to work grudgingly with women and girls is not going to be good for anyone. Women and girls' services need to be provided by those who... well. Actually care about women and girls, for a start.

Maybe everyone should send a message of support. Otherwise they could try for a reversal of this decision all on the basis of the echo chamber of horror at thought of trans identifying male boys being denied access. They may not know how much support there really is.

Another reason against this is that allowing gender confused boy children to pretend they are girls would constitute a dangerous act of affirmation and non-neutrality, and so possibly confirm them on a trans pathway.

The law won't be changed by a brigading of angry emails. It's not an opinion poll that can be brigaded: this is an extinction burst from a political movement used to getting its own way via loud, public tantrums.

To change the law, MPs will have to actually get this past the entire public, and explain they wish to remove women and homosexual rights in law to enable men to have a new and extra right of access to non consenting women in a state of undress, no exceptions in circumstances. While women explain the realities of this, in depth, to the general public with screen shots.

THAT in the ECtHR could really be interesting. I doubt Churchill and the others in the origins of the human rights act sat around a table after WW2 thinking about how very important it was that this particular group of men had a special human right to a non consenting woman in a state of undress. It won't be found in any of the documentation.

The really sad thing here is that the real sticking point is the shock that women have rights too .

If it's true that they're singling out supportive comments for deletion then that is extremely inappropriate and disappointing.

Are these official groups moderated by GG employees or are they moderated by volunteers?

They are not official groups but are moderated heavily to make sure that everyone is complying with the GG code of conduct.

For every one that says they are unhappy, I just want to tell them to fuck off to Scouting

I'm really please about this as males should never have been allowed to join. My girls go to guides and there was quite a bit of fuss from a number of the other parents, typically it was mostly the fathers who were outraged, saying they were going to boycott the Guides from now on even though there are no trans identifying kids that go to our group. No doubt those of us who keep going will be given the cold shoulder but who cares, they've only outed themselves as misogynists.

A couple of years ago, I quietly and privately asked a local Rainbows leader about trans inclusion in her unit. She said they would be forced to allow it but would have to stop doing overnight trips as they wouldn't be comfortable mixing a boy in with the girls when sleeping.

I'm very glad she doesn't have to deal with this issue now. Our local Scouts unit already has several girls, who are well-segregated on camp (apparently the rumour was that Guides was a bit sitting around colouring and Scouts was more interesting and exciting). I'm sure that any trans girls would be welcomed like any other member and could easily take their friends with them.

I don't have a problem with male volunteers per se - DD's Brownies has a lovely male helper (married to Brown Owl), who plays guitar, leads singalongs, and is brilliant at arts and crafts. He is a fabulous example of how a man can support a woman who's in charge. However - importantly - when they do a sleepover, he has separate accommodation. Because he is a man.

I heard theres at least an unwritten rule male helpers have to be related to members eg. dads or the leaders husband. You won't find single men without children tagging on. Either way the single sex safeguards are critical if men are involved.

One of the reasons I wouldn’t do my Going Away qual was so that I couldn’t be put in that position if we were to have any trans members in our unit. Ironically, I was on a Division trip when I was flashed at by a trans-identified male. Fortunately none of the girls with me saw anything.

does anyone want to go along to represent GC beliefs

https://www.instagram.com/p/DSDh3zejHhf/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D

Have you seen the latest HQ email?

They're asking for people to input to be part of a task force to work out how to help trans identified boys.

It's anonymous so I've filled it in asking where the funding will be coming from as they can't use donations for girls to do a project about supporting males.

I do wonder what the charity commission would think about this

I’ve completed it in a similar vein!

They should not use any charity resources - including employee time, computer resources or even logos and letter heads. This is actually quite outrageous from the point of view of charity law.

The trustees cannot have sanctioned this, and if they did the Charity Commission should be involved.