The myth of 'bathroom bans' harming 'cis' women

[ItsCoolForCats]

What can we do to put this nonsense to bed?

Marie Goldman, the Lib Dem MP, has written to Bridget Phillipson about the leaked EHRC code of practice, and has posted this on her Facebook page:

"Imagine being turned away from a bathroom, a hospital, or even a cinema just for “not looking female enough”.

That’s exactly what the leaked EHRC guidance on single-sex services could lead to. Along with over 40 Lib Dem colleagues, I’ve written to the Minister for Women & Equalities to raise serious concerns.

The draft could have staff questioning anyone’s sex based on appearance and refusing access if there’s any doubt. That risks putting trans and non-binary people – and all women and girls – in unsafe, humiliating situations.

It’s confusing, unworkable for businesses, and a backward step for equality. We urgently need new, inclusive, practical guidance that protects everyone’s rights, safety, and dignity".

The comments under her post are pretty wild (with a smattering of common sense). And when you click on the profile pictures of some of the 'women' claiming this will harm 'cis' women and is unenforceable, it is apparent within half a second of looking at their profile pictures that they are male. And of course there are the usual compliant women saying it's "cis het" men that are the issue.

Why can't people see this for what is? Emotional manipulation and blackmail designed to allow men to keep accessing women's single sex spaces. I find it astonishing that intelligent people fall for this.

We are hardwired to identify whether a person is male or female.

But it isn't a myth, it happens.

As ever, if we knew that 100% of men would never go into female single-sex spaces, then scrutiny and challenge would not be necessary.

Every time this comes up here, several of us, myself included, report that we have indeed been challenged in a women's toilet - 'This is the ladies!' because of how we look - whether deliberately or not - and/or how we dress.

We've all said that a calm, friendly reply of 'It's OK I am in the right place' has immediately caused the 'challengers' to have a second look, perceive all those markers that enable women to ID men, including gait, voice and attitude, and all is well.

Even when it happens to non-gender-conforming women like me, it's not a big deal. Save your energy for real social issues, Marie Goldman MP.

What cinemas turn people away based on how they look?

Amazing how no-one gave a fuck about women's feelings until caring about them helped get men what they want.

Isn't it just!!!

Which is worse? That an occasional woman is asked to reassure other women or to use the gender neutral facilities?

Or that women are not permitted single sex spaces, and must be used by any bloke fetishist, activist and rapist who fancies it? And those who cannot use mixed sex spaces being excluded from society?

This stupid woman is pressing for men's rights to use non consenting women's bodies, and submission to this being the price of living in society. I'll bet she isn't able to be honest with herself about this. It is fucking appalling.

And it means that if men can force women to submit to using toilets with them, they can and will force women, through tools like this absolute fool, ensure that women have to be strip searched, in hospital wards with, medically examined by a man intent on using her body for his self expression purposes without the faintest regard for her as a person or her needs in the situation. it is wicked

No man needs the right to use a non consenting woman's body.

I do not care how fucking sad he is. And any man who wants it is demonstrating precisely why he should not be anywhere near a woman in a state of undress.

Is this happening on a widespread scale, more than it ever has in the past? Is the solution to let any man into female spaces in case someone inadvertently gets offended?

I’d like to know what ‘new inclusive’ guidelines she thinks would work. I’ve noticed many of these people seem quick to criticise but never actually come up with an alternative other than some vague words.

Exactly. Are we really expected to believe that these men suddenly give a shit about butch lesbians? Or about trans men, I.e. women, except when they want to wheel out the 'bearded trans man' scaring people in the women's toilets argument.

Every time I see these arguments being trotted out on social media, without any critical thinking, it makes me want to scream and bang my head against the wall.

Why can't people see what is so bloody obvious? That this is a desperate tactic being used by men who are panicking about their access to female spaces being stopped.

I saw another thing on Facebook earlier (I need to stay off it because it gives me the rage).

A man posted a heavily filtered picture saying as a feminine transwomen it wasn't safe for him to use mens facilities. And all.the comments were saying how cute he looks, with women saying of course he was welcome in the ladies. But there are actual non-filtered pictures of him on his Facebook profile where he just looks like a regular bloke. Oh and he described himself as a Satanist 🙄 What would be the issue with him using the men's? What the fuck is wrong with people?

Yes it is. There's been a noticeable increase, which I've witnessed myself and seen friends verbally attacked because the don't look 'feminine enough'

Surely the main answers include -

Making it clear to men to do the right thing an use men's toilets

Punish men severely who use women's toilets

Ensure that all birth certificates, passports and driving licences and other ID is truthful, so that if a genuine mistake is made the person concerned can show ID that people can trust

so what do you think we should do about it?

And note the fantastically cynical manipulation this woman is using on behalf of male activists.

No one gives a fuck about women like Sandie Peggie or any other woman who has been distressed, excluded, harmed, assaulted, and all the rest of it by these men which led to the SCJ. No one cares.

But suddenly this passionate distress that a woman might be challenged and how horrible it might feel....

Oh pull the fucking other one, it's got bells on it.

I once had an (online) argument with someone who claimed that now, women that "are not femenine enough" will be searched by male policemen. 🙄
The lack of common sense is off the scale

I don't believe you, this is one of the many identified alternative reality myths spread with the aim of making women shut up and put up with men using them.

If you do actually care about those women, then bear with those women while the norm is re established that men stay out of women's spaces however they identify, and then all the women who have learned to be frightened and suspicious of potential men in their spaces because of men invading and making those spaces untenable to them, will be able to go back to knowing they don't have to be wary that a man may be trying to fake his way into being with her while she's got her knickers down.

As far as I'm concerned there's a special place in hell for these penis pandering women.

I'd love to know their motivation however. Is it a hatred of other women, are they so ambitious they will step on other women to
make themselves more amenable to men or is it extreme virtue signalling?

There are enough of these women in Mumsnet so I'm sure one of you would like to answer me. 🤷‍♀️

No one should be verbally ‘attacked’, clarifying that politely asking and discussing also should never be considered an attack.

However, female people, who others might not recognise as being female for many reasons, will also continue to be asked regardless of the clarification of the law. I was asked decades ago. It is not a new thing and I dare say it will continue for decades more.

Even if every non-feminine-looking woman found themselves unable to use public facilities, would that be more than the number of women that are excluded from public toilets if they are all unisex?

Eta - posting as someone in the category of 'non feminine woman' I objected to my own terminology!

It's not a myth. It's happened to me. I was asked to leave a women's toilets for not 'looking like a woman".

Obviously, I refused because I have as much right as any other woman to be there and I really needed a wee! It was very distressing to be followed and shouted at for being a man though.

Does it, aye?

If we’re expected to believe very unconvincing looking men dressed in women’s clothing and wigs etc don’t get challenged, why would actual women get challenged?

This definitely happens. My daughter has been affected and is now anxious and uncomfortable about using women's toilets.

women followed you and shouted at you,? Women who thought you were a man even when you spoke and said you were female? women who as a class are generally scared of provoking men because they can quickly turn violent. Women did this?

The same women that even the butchest and non passing of TW are always trilling are totally of accepting of them bro g in the women's?

🧐