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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

No child is born in the wrong body - Kemi Badenoch. Letter to Wes Streeting

355 replies

IwantToRetire · 26/11/2025 01:06

Saw this being shared on facebook. Quote:

No child is born in the wrong body.

I cannot believe we are back to square one, with NHS England backing an experimental trial of puberty blockers on healthy, vulnerable children, ignoring the damage already done.

The No1 rule of medicine is "do no harm".
This is activist ideology masquerading as research.

I'm urging MPs of all parties to sign this letter from me and Shadow Health Secretary Stuart Andrew for Daventry, calling for Wes Streeting to step in and stop this trial before more damage is done to children who are too young to understand what they are doing to themselves.

https://www.facebook.com/kemibadenoch/posts/pfbid02c3rSBKCtNCY5qHeLVtJN94j4MhB7fZnoW159VXbzJUBdrMrDDbC3C4v6KX3W7MEbl

No child is born in the wrong body - Kemi Badenoch. Letter to Wes Streeting
No child is born in the wrong body - Kemi Badenoch. Letter to Wes Streeting
OP posts:
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10
Greyskybluesky · 26/11/2025 13:58

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2025 13:57

I recommend that you allow tigers to have separate toilets though.

How do you propose to stop lions shaving off their manes and entering? 🤔

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 26/11/2025 14:02

Why else would doctors be 'passionate' about a treatment if they hadn't seen for themselves positive outcomes?

Why would Dr's who are 'trans' IDing not see positive outcomes in a treatment they were passionate about?

MistyGreenAndBlue · 26/11/2025 14:10

EmilyinEverton · 26/11/2025 07:25

As opposed to chronic depression, anxiety, suicidality & suicide?

I feel for Dr Cass & clinicians because they are put in very difficult positions where the consequences can be a life of misery or can be fatal. Parent's begging for help to save their children's lives can't be an easy thing to deal with.

Edited

This may have been addressed by now further on but I thought we knew that around 80% of children who were "denied treatment" and not put on puberty blockers desisted after puberty and became reconciled to their sex?
So the outcome of "denying treatment" is actually known in the majority of cases. Also no suicides or suicide attempts are directly linked to this , are they? Again, what more are they trying to prove?
Drugs have known long term side effects. Denial of drugs overwhelmingly leads to a more positive outcome.

No need for further trials.

Cantunseeit · 26/11/2025 14:10

Datun · 26/11/2025 13:56

Oh dear, it looks like the cleaning person's posts have all been deleted.

Presumably a PBP.

Sad times

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2025 14:16

Greyskybluesky · 26/11/2025 13:58

How do you propose to stop lions shaving off their manes and entering? 🤔

If they identify as tigers they can use the tiger litter box. I don't recommend this for human tigers, I'm a biological realist after all.

Datun · 26/11/2025 14:17

Cantunseeit · 26/11/2025 14:10

Sad times

I'm guessing the moderators were summoned, deletions occurred and the removal from space was the result.

Sad and uncannily prescient.

Helleofabore · 26/11/2025 14:17

Cantunseeit · 26/11/2025 13:38

In the year of the last census there were 10 girls who identified as trans in my daughter’s year group at school (that I know of - there may have been more). This was over 11% of the girls in the year group.

Obviously this is anecdotal but it seems pretty consistent with wider anecdotal evidence and with Cass’ observation of the “school to clinic pipeline”

in the meantime, methodological issues with the phrasing of the question around trans identities makes the census numbers unreliable.

I have spoken to parents of different schools and there are 'double digit %' in some of those too.

Some years more than others too.

Helleofabore · 26/11/2025 14:19

Datun · 26/11/2025 13:54

It wasn't long ago that GIRES recommended holding a full assembly every time a kid came out as trans and giving them a cake to celebrate.

but I'm guessing as soon as it became evident that social contagion was at work, they no longer wanted that information publicly available

Edited

I remember this.

It was a recipe for disaster in the perspective of rewarding a particular behaviour.

And as Dr Cass stated, there is a significant issue with children who then do change their mind.

MagpiePi · 26/11/2025 15:17

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2025 13:57

I recommend that you allow tigers to have separate toilets though.

None of them need separate toilets as they all #JustWantToPee.
Rabbits and deer will just have to reframe their trauma if they are worried about lions and tigers.

Irememberwhenitwasallfieldsroundhere · 26/11/2025 15:27

Is there a petition?

lifeturnsonadime · 26/11/2025 15:52

Gosh I missed all of the deleted posts.

I can't understand how any right minded government can sanction this on NHS funds. The negligence claims will ruin the already underfunded NHS.

Why does no one care about the risk?

Helleofabore · 26/11/2025 16:01

Just adding this Sally Baxendale paper from February 2024 on neuropsychological function that may be of interest.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apa.17150

The impact of suppressing puberty on neuropsychological function: A review

Aim
Concerns have been raised regarding the impact of medications that interrupt puberty, given the magnitude and complexity of changes that occur in brain function and structure during this sensitive window of neurodevelopment. This review examines the literature on the impact of pubertal suppression on cognitive and behavioural function in animals and humans.

Methods
All studies reporting cognitive impacts of treatment with GnRH agonists/antagonists for pubertal suppression in animals or humans were sought via a systematic search strategy across the PubMed, Embase, Web of Science and PsycINFO databases.

Results
Sixteen studies were identified. In mammals, the neuropsychological impacts of puberty blockers are complex and often sex specific (n = 11 studies). There is no evidence that cognitive effects are fully reversible following discontinuation of treatment. No human studies have systematically explored the impact of these treatments on neuropsychological function with an adequate baseline and follow-up. There is some evidence of a detrimental impact of pubertal suppression on IQ in children.

Conclusion
Critical questions remain unanswered regarding the nature, extent and permanence of any arrested development of cognitive function associated with puberty blockers. The impact of puberal suppression on measures of neuropsychological function is an urgent research priority.

Relating to the claim that there is ‘some evidence’ of a detrimental impact on IQ of children, she says this about puberty blockers with precocious puberty.

In the only human study that established a baseline prior to treatment, Mul et al.43 examined the response to treatment with puberty blockers on a number of psychosocial outcomes including the Child Behaviour Checklist and performance on the shortened version of the Wechsler Intelligence Scales for Children in a group of 25 girls treated for early puberty. Three years after treatment commenced, the group as a whole had experienced a loss in both performance IQ and full scale IQ, with a decline of 7 points in the latter. While statistically significant at p < 0.01, the authors state that the decrease in IQ was not ‘clinically relevant’, a conclusion repeated in a later citation of the study.44 While the average loss of IQ points was 7, it is noteworthy that at least one patient in this study experienced a significant loss of 15 points or more, since the highest IQ score in the group was 138 at baseline and this dropped to 123 following treatment.

And this about the use for Gender dysphoria.

Three studies were identified that examined the neuropsychological impact of GnRH analogue treatments in transgender and gender diverse young people. In a single case study, Schneider et al. (2017) examined the impact of pubertal suppression on brain white matter and (white matter fractional anisotropy) and cognitive function (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-IV) in an 11-year-old treated for gender dysphoria (male to -female). On admission, at the age of 11 years and 10 months, the patient was assessed to have a global IQ of 80. Treatment with GnRHa was instigated at age 11 years, 11 months. The patient was reassessed age 13 and 3 months, at which time, a loss of 9 IQ points had occurred, and the IQ had dropped to 71. A loss of 15 points was evident in working memory. At 14 years and 2 months, a loss of 10 global IQ points and 9 points in working memory remained apparent. The verbal comprehension index (a measure which depends on the expansion of vocabulary and conceptual thinking in adolescence, for the standardised score to remain stable) deteriorated progressively over the follow-up, falling from the initial baseline of 101, to 91 (age 13) and 86 (age 14), a loss of 15 points over 3 years.

SexRealismBeliefs · 26/11/2025 16:03

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2025 13:57

I recommend that you allow tigers to have separate toilets though.

I am a trans fluid trans species tiger.

I can self ID into the ladies or the gents

SexRealismBeliefs · 26/11/2025 16:05

Greyskybluesky · 26/11/2025 13:58

How do you propose to stop lions shaving off their manes and entering? 🤔

And won't you think of the hairy lesbians who might get mistaken for a tiger. I mean you need to let men in for that reason, so why not cat types?

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 26/11/2025 16:06

Somebody think of the hairy lesbians! (Hastily covers up legs)

Helleofabore · 26/11/2025 16:08

"Don't tell the women here not to expend their bloody energies on safeguarding their own children."

You know, when you see it, you cannot unsee the effort expended to redirect parent's efforts away from discussions about the ethics of this trial. It is really revealing.

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2025 16:12

SexRealismBeliefs · 26/11/2025 16:03

I am a trans fluid trans species tiger.

I can self ID into the ladies or the gents

and your pronouns are grrr & prrr?

SexRealismBeliefs · 26/11/2025 16:18

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2025 16:12

and your pronouns are grrr & prrr?

My pronouns are Meow and Mreow - if you do not adhere to my ideology I will fill you full of medication and remove your body parts. And if you do adhere to my ideology I will also do the same.

Its a lose lose ideology.

Helleofabore · 26/11/2025 16:24

One of the other surprising things about this thread has been the degree that some posters wish to dismiss the negative impacts of peer and media influence on children.

Apparently, we are supposed to trust children when they say they are transgender ... but only some of them, the rest are just winding up parents, not even their own parents.

Yet, those very same children should be used in trial where the end result is their bodies undergoing extreme modifications to fit their philosophical belief about their identity that doesn't reflect material reality.... The lack of coherency is hard to miss.

Datun · 26/11/2025 16:25

Helleofabore · 26/11/2025 16:01

Just adding this Sally Baxendale paper from February 2024 on neuropsychological function that may be of interest.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apa.17150

The impact of suppressing puberty on neuropsychological function: A review

Aim
Concerns have been raised regarding the impact of medications that interrupt puberty, given the magnitude and complexity of changes that occur in brain function and structure during this sensitive window of neurodevelopment. This review examines the literature on the impact of pubertal suppression on cognitive and behavioural function in animals and humans.

Methods
All studies reporting cognitive impacts of treatment with GnRH agonists/antagonists for pubertal suppression in animals or humans were sought via a systematic search strategy across the PubMed, Embase, Web of Science and PsycINFO databases.

Results
Sixteen studies were identified. In mammals, the neuropsychological impacts of puberty blockers are complex and often sex specific (n = 11 studies). There is no evidence that cognitive effects are fully reversible following discontinuation of treatment. No human studies have systematically explored the impact of these treatments on neuropsychological function with an adequate baseline and follow-up. There is some evidence of a detrimental impact of pubertal suppression on IQ in children.

Conclusion
Critical questions remain unanswered regarding the nature, extent and permanence of any arrested development of cognitive function associated with puberty blockers. The impact of puberal suppression on measures of neuropsychological function is an urgent research priority.

Relating to the claim that there is ‘some evidence’ of a detrimental impact on IQ of children, she says this about puberty blockers with precocious puberty.

In the only human study that established a baseline prior to treatment, Mul et al.43 examined the response to treatment with puberty blockers on a number of psychosocial outcomes including the Child Behaviour Checklist and performance on the shortened version of the Wechsler Intelligence Scales for Children in a group of 25 girls treated for early puberty. Three years after treatment commenced, the group as a whole had experienced a loss in both performance IQ and full scale IQ, with a decline of 7 points in the latter. While statistically significant at p < 0.01, the authors state that the decrease in IQ was not ‘clinically relevant’, a conclusion repeated in a later citation of the study.44 While the average loss of IQ points was 7, it is noteworthy that at least one patient in this study experienced a significant loss of 15 points or more, since the highest IQ score in the group was 138 at baseline and this dropped to 123 following treatment.

And this about the use for Gender dysphoria.

Three studies were identified that examined the neuropsychological impact of GnRH analogue treatments in transgender and gender diverse young people. In a single case study, Schneider et al. (2017) examined the impact of pubertal suppression on brain white matter and (white matter fractional anisotropy) and cognitive function (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-IV) in an 11-year-old treated for gender dysphoria (male to -female). On admission, at the age of 11 years and 10 months, the patient was assessed to have a global IQ of 80. Treatment with GnRHa was instigated at age 11 years, 11 months. The patient was reassessed age 13 and 3 months, at which time, a loss of 9 IQ points had occurred, and the IQ had dropped to 71. A loss of 15 points was evident in working memory. At 14 years and 2 months, a loss of 10 global IQ points and 9 points in working memory remained apparent. The verbal comprehension index (a measure which depends on the expansion of vocabulary and conceptual thinking in adolescence, for the standardised score to remain stable) deteriorated progressively over the follow-up, falling from the initial baseline of 101, to 91 (age 13) and 86 (age 14), a loss of 15 points over 3 years.

Bloody hell.

quantumbutterfly · 26/11/2025 16:32

Eugenics by the back door?

Helleofabore · 26/11/2025 16:39

The other thing was that there also seemed to be a belief that it is appropriate that threats of suicide and self harm threats/behaviour should result in receiving drugs and surgery that provide the person making these threats with the extreme body modifications that they believe will make them happy.

These are not drugs that support better mental health, or clarity of thinking etc, these are potentially drug and surgical treatments that irreversibly modify the human body to suit that person's philosophical belief about themselves. A belief that doesn't reflect material reality.

Yet these treatments are supposed to be given to prevent a person who is threatening to carry out self harm and worse from doing these things because those people have been told by many sources that this is the only thing that will help them.

Turning a healthy body into a life long medical patient requiring intensive and multiple treatments for the rest of their lives.