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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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53
MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 14:45

TheseCowsAreSmall · 21/11/2025 14:40

What a shit take from R lawyer. Suspension not neutral? To be my most NI: What the actual fuck, like?

Don't get me wrong, suspension is not a neutral act, it's a very serious decision, but it is generally considered to be neutral until after the investigation.

ProfessorBettyBooper · 21/11/2025 14:46

NebulousDeadline · 21/11/2025 14:43

FFS it is very easy to write a "sympathetic" email but it is pretty clear MD and board didn't believe a word of it.

Agreed.

That is not a sympathetic letter. Not by any stretch. It blames SM throughout and drips with sarcasm at the end.

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 14:47

16 months?! FFS.

They could have managed the grievance and disciplinary investigation at the same time.

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 14:48

15 minutes warning.

I have a call at 3pm and will stop pasting.

volunteer required.

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 14:50

So a charity is considered a medium sized organisation when it hits £500k turnover.

Which BFF nearly has. It is not tiny and every employee still has rights even in sma organisations m

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 14:50

From NW

SD it acted on C's action because it got criticism and complaint "the crucial difference is the way in which C manifested her pol opinion led to blow back. That is why there was an investigation - that is not discrimination."

SD C was not removed from the BFF programme. She was never put on it in the first place - because she didn't work on it because she was off sick. That is not an act of discrimination.

SD explaining chron of MD sending email password on 25 July, the message to Bethany O'Neill re sending invite to SM's gmail account and why it happened the way MD said it did.

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 14:51

From NW

SD points out it is accepted Emmett Owens work as leading the grievance appeal was his own - he was not xe'd. There was nothing about the grievance appeal process which could account for a "last straw"

If there was a complaint about any unfairness in the GA then it should have been properly put to EO in xe. He was not xe'd. There was nothing wrong with the GA. So the unfair dismissal claim must fail.

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 14:52

From NW

SD claims MC's email is an act of harassment. Reads from the email : "Hi Marie-Therese, Lisa and Michele
I'm back home after a great time in Docs Ireland. I think it was the best year
wet - more international etc. Thank vou.
On Friday night, in a bar, our staff member Sara Morrison raised the subject
to me of her speech at the trans rally. She said that she knew that Michele
had talked to me, that she is standing up for the rights of women, that she's
"not anti anything" and told me that it's about her son.
I told her that this was not the right time to discuss it - we were surrounded
by festival guests.
I found the whole thing troubling for several reasons. (1) There seemed to
be the suggestion that Michele of spreading false information; I told Sara
that I had heard reports of her speech from several sources including other
board members. (2) There was no hint of regret for, or doubt about, what
she did. As you'll know "I'm standing up for the rights of women" is the
argument used by conservatives and religious people in several countries,
and a new staple of the anti-LGBTQanti-lslamic right. (3) If I remember
correctly, her child is a trans woman, so she is misgendering her here (I might
be wrong about that).
If Sara is saying this to me - a board member, vocal supporter of trans rights
and friend of Michele - I think it's possible to imagine that she is being less
careful elsewhere.
I therefore feel that we need to accelerate the process by which this is
sorted, if possible. Michele, as you know, on Friday I'm supposed to present
with you our pitch for the big Hearth project. Sara's is named as part of the
team for that project. I think her name should be removed pending the
resolution of this. We can't have an inclusion/diversity officer who, many
weeks after making such an ill-advised speech, is still standing by her actions
completely.
Sorry to bother yous with this.
Markx"

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 14:54

From NW

SD that is not an act of harassment - nor is it about political beliefs. It is a concerned board member sending an email. It wasn't even seen by SM until discovery.
SD "fatal flaw in the C's case is that an org must be entitled to iv when there is damage or suspected damage to the rep of the org" and breach of contract - the org must be allowed to iv "What else was the FF supposed to do?"

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 21/11/2025 14:54

Good grief, Michelle Devlin's sign off in her response to Sara's resignation is extraordinary. "Warm regards and may you burn in hell, Michelle Me-Me-Me Devlin"

In addition to the damage to the reputation of our organisation, your colleagues and I have suffered greatly from stress, ill-health and hurt throughout this entire process. It has been the most difficult 16 months of my entire life.

I wish you and your family well and hope you find satisfaction in whatever direction your life and career go next.

With warm regards
Michele
Michele Devlin

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 14:58

From NW

[SD ends]
[NC says she has a short response. There are no q's from the J]
NC just a very short point but quite important on the suggestion by SD that the complaint about the crit of the women's sector orgs preceded the ET complaint, but the first grounds of claim in Oct 2023...

... MD's evidence was given on 15 March 2024 so the iv interview appearance post-dated grounds of claim and grounds of resistance.
J there's certainly a lot of info that's been presented over the last two weeks. I'm aware its a v emotive issue it is for everyone in the room

... and for that reason we will be "I intend to take a lot of time to go over it... do not expect a decision from me before xmas". the time allocated to me will be down to the President and how much she can afford me. We are v short staffed here. Just want to thank both parties..

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 15:00

From NW

... the amount of prep that has gone into both parties submissions and the volume of info put before us has not gone unnoticed. "We'll get the decision out as soon as we can." [hearing ends]

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 15:00

You lucky people.

It doesn't need any more pasting.

I'll come back and paste the summary and Nick's closing posts about his blog after my call.

MarieDeGournay · 21/11/2025 15:01

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 15:00

From NW

... the amount of prep that has gone into both parties submissions and the volume of info put before us has not gone unnoticed. "We'll get the decision out as soon as we can." [hearing ends]

They obvs ended in time for you to take/make that call, Myrtle😀

Cailin66 · 21/11/2025 15:01

123ZYX · 21/11/2025 13:29

Thank you and the others for the reply.

I see that Michele Devlin is both Chief Executive Officer and Company Secretary.

The Trustees are:
Dr Laurence McKeown Treasurer Kevin Jackson (resigned 5/4/2024)
Louise O'Meara (resigned 12/1/2024)
Mark Cousins
Lisa Barros D'sa
Lucy Baxter
Nisha Tandon
Marie-Therese McGivem Maeve McAdam (appointed 5/4/2024)

Nearly all of those gave evidence at the Tribunal.

The irony of this stated achievement will not be lost on the good women (and men) of mumsnet:

Docs Ireland was proud to present four diverse and wide-ranging Irish Shorts Programmes, with 52% of short films directed by women

It's not clear if they mean actual women or the 'other' category of women !

ProfessorBinturong · 21/11/2025 15:01

And we're done! Judgement some time after xmas - warned will not be quick.

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 15:01

From NW

Okay that's that. I'll try to get the newsletter out before i catch my flight tonight. If you want to want to join the mailing list for any stuff I put out on sex and gender, please consider a small donation.

https://genderblog.net/donate/

I'll pick this up in a few minutes...

ProfessorBettyBooper · 21/11/2025 15:02

MC - 'at the trans rally.' and 'As you'll know "I'm standing up for the rights of women" is the argument used by conservatives and religious people in several countries,and a new staple of the anti-LGBTQanti-lslamic right.'

Yes, this was definitely about SM's comments about women's groups 🙄

ProfessorFanOfBen · 21/11/2025 15:02

Have we ever had an ET where there were no questions from the judge at this submissions stage?

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 15:02

Cailin66 · 21/11/2025 15:01

Thank you and the others for the reply.

I see that Michele Devlin is both Chief Executive Officer and Company Secretary.

The Trustees are:
Dr Laurence McKeown Treasurer Kevin Jackson (resigned 5/4/2024)
Louise O'Meara (resigned 12/1/2024)
Mark Cousins
Lisa Barros D'sa
Lucy Baxter
Nisha Tandon
Marie-Therese McGivem Maeve McAdam (appointed 5/4/2024)

Nearly all of those gave evidence at the Tribunal.

The irony of this stated achievement will not be lost on the good women (and men) of mumsnet:

Docs Ireland was proud to present four diverse and wide-ranging Irish Shorts Programmes, with 52% of short films directed by women

It's not clear if they mean actual women or the 'other' category of women !

It's usual for the CEO to be the Company Secretary because they post all the legal requirements to Companies House and the Charity Commission on behalf of the Board. Nothing nefarious there.

DeanElderberry · 21/11/2025 15:03

apologies. It's actually all Foxy's fault, she sent me on a trip down memory lane the other day and I can't concentrate,

ProfessorBettyBooper · 21/11/2025 15:04

ProfessorFanOfBen · 21/11/2025 15:02

Have we ever had an ET where there were no questions from the judge at this submissions stage?

They usually at least discuss as a panel...

ProfessorBettyBooper · 21/11/2025 15:06

ProfessorBettyBooper · 21/11/2025 15:04

They usually at least discuss as a panel...

"I intend to take a lot of time to go over it... do not expect a decision from me before xmas".

Is MM still even there???

Cailin66 · 21/11/2025 15:11

MyrtleLion · 21/11/2025 15:02

It's usual for the CEO to be the Company Secretary because they post all the legal requirements to Companies House and the Charity Commission on behalf of the Board. Nothing nefarious there.

Thanks Myrtle I'm aware of that, and thanks also for your reporting. I see there were four employees in 2023:

LIST OF STAFF MEMBERS Michele Devlin (Director); Mary Lindsay (Marketing Manager); Sara Morrison (Inclusion/Audience Development); Moyra Lock (Finance/Admin (Freelance))

Reduced to with the removal of Sara for 2024's report:

LIST OF STAFF MEMBERS Michele Devlin (CEO); Maiy Lindsay (Head of Marketing); Sara MoITis011 (Inclusion/Audience Development); Moyra Lock (provides Finance/Admin Services (Freelance))

(the incorrect spelling is coming from the unproof-read accounts/reports.) I'm just having a poke around to see how this charity is run.

TheRevDocProfKittyWilkinsonTSB · 21/11/2025 15:12

Thank you so much everyone, especially @MyrtleLion for her dedication to keeping the rest of us informd.

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