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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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53
ProfessorBettyBooper · 19/11/2025 16:49

LoonyQuine · 19/11/2025 16:47

From the same text message (back on page 5 of this thread but long enough I didn't want to quote) as the clear destination quote we also have this "Michele has gathered further formal complaints relating to Sara."

Apart from making me think of gathering lilac in Spring, it would surely be more natural to say someone had received further formal complaints? To gather is an active verb whereas to receive is passive. It implies a degree of searching, seeking out.

That might just be me using too narrow a definition though

Yes, thanks for that. I thought exactly the same when I saw it. 'Gathered' really does imply a purposeful action with an intent.

LoonyQuine · 19/11/2025 16:50

ProfessorBettyBooper · 19/11/2025 16:49

Yes, thanks for that. I thought exactly the same when I saw it. 'Gathered' really does imply a purposeful action with an intent.

Glad it wasn't just me that picked that up!

moto748e · 19/11/2025 16:50

I'm sure she said 'gathered' because that was exactly what she meant.

DontStopMe · 19/11/2025 16:50

Wow. This attempted stitch up is quite jaw-dropping. I've been attempting to keep up with the threads and have probably missed a lot along the way, but all I can say is, well done to those who have unpicked it all.

ProfessorBettyBooper · 19/11/2025 16:56

moto748e · 19/11/2025 16:50

I'm sure she said 'gathered' because that was exactly what she meant.

Yep.

ProfessorBinturong · 19/11/2025 17:05

The use of 'gatherd' was put to the witness, and hotly denied.

Going back a bit, this about the unremembered phone call:

NC so you discussed your concerns and decided to leave it there, is that right

Was a lovely segment.

My notes:

N: Concerns were already well established. Not much point just airing concerns. Was to discuss what to do next.

L: Not. To discuss serious occurrence.

N: You're all busy people? Get things done?

L: Yes.

N: You set up an urgent phone call, but just to discuss again what the concerns were.

L: New information was concerning.

N: Everyone was concerned. It was a crisis.

L: Not a crisis. A concern.

N: Surely 2 co-chairs and a CEO would discuss what to do next. Not just agree it was concerning and that you would leave it there and worry some more.

ProfessorBettyBooper · 19/11/2025 17:23

Are you concerned?
Yes I am concerned.
We are concerned.
It is very concerning.
There are new concerns.
Yes, it is all very concerning.
Shall we do anything about it?
Nah, let's not bother.
All right, tara!

Largesso · 19/11/2025 17:25

ProfessorOfAllTheThings · 19/11/2025 16:15

I think she was put on sick leave before she declared herself off sick/had a sick note

In earlier testimony NC made the point that they have been generous with sick leave in the past ie not putting staff on SSP automatically, and in fact they have
never put anyone of SSL so why so quick to put SM on SSP this time?

I think it adds to the sense of SM being de facto suspended when combined with all the other elements.

I don’t think BFF were capable of understand that each distinct element would not be viewed only as a distinct element but there is a valid inference from the cumulative impact.

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 19/11/2025 17:28

During LM's xe I kept musing on how important 'inclusion' seems to be to BFF, but 'diversity' seems to have a very narrow scope, and doesn't extend to people holding different views from your own, even when insisting how entitled to her views SM is.

UtopiaPlanitia · 19/11/2025 17:36

MarieDeGournay · 19/11/2025 11:33

I believe that the BFF crowd are genuine in saying they don't remember stuff - I know I couldn't necessarily recall dates of meetings and decisions and phone calls etc. from a while back.
WHICH IS WHY IT IS ESSENTIAL TO TAKE NOTES AND MINUTES AND RECORD THINGS PROPERLY! Duh!

That way, your process of dealing with 'serious concerns' involving the reputation of the organisation and the wellbeing and future of an employee will be clear and obvious if you have to defend it at an ET.

Not 'well it must've been then because it was the day before I was going to London....' 🙄

Making contemporaneous notes of meetings and phone calls, and filing them in the relevant employee's personnel file, seems to be a lost art to the various management bods we've encountered in recent Employment Tribunals.

Standards are slipping as my Old Gaffer would say.

ProfessorStlcakethereforeIam · 19/11/2025 17:39

ProfessorBettyBooper · 19/11/2025 17:23

Are you concerned?
Yes I am concerned.
We are concerned.
It is very concerning.
There are new concerns.
Yes, it is all very concerning.
Shall we do anything about it?
Nah, let's not bother.
All right, tara!

When this gets dramatised, this bit could be a dream sequence in the style of a Gilbert & Sullivan style patter song

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/ObP3UUcmINE?si=sNh5nsz1s6VzOogr

ProfessorDrPrunesqualer · 19/11/2025 17:45

ProfessorStlcakethereforeIam · 19/11/2025 17:39

When this gets dramatised, this bit could be a dream sequence in the style of a Gilbert & Sullivan style patter song

🤣🤣🤣
exhausting

Cailleach1 · 19/11/2025 17:47

‘Board member Laurence McKeown (LM) weighs in: "I totally agree. As you say Mark, it doesn't affect her
employment rights but it removes her, and the
festival, from the issue. People would be totally
justified in refusing to work With her but we shouldn't
put them in that position. I looked at her comments
on YouTube. - appalling." ‘

Well now. A woman stands up for the rights of women to a fair, safe and dignified treatment in the world. For example, no cheating men destroying their sports. No men further traumatising women in refuges and shelters. No opportunity for men to abuse, rape, and generally brutalise women by creating places in prison where they are trapped with men. No opportunity or loophole given for men to access and harass women and young girls where they are vulnerable or in a state of undress. And further expose themselves to same.

And Laurence McKeown, has the brass neck to think that is appalling. Maybe it is justified that people (women especially) should never be put in a position of having to having to work with Laurence McKeown.

Lunde · 19/11/2025 17:47

ProfessorBettyBooper · 19/11/2025 17:23

Are you concerned?
Yes I am concerned.
We are concerned.
It is very concerning.
There are new concerns.
Yes, it is all very concerning.
Shall we do anything about it?
Nah, let's not bother.
All right, tara!

Wen need to have "talks about talks" to discuss the "concerns about the concerns"

.... but nobody decided anything

SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 17:48

ickky · 19/11/2025 14:14

From NW

... you'd be encroaching on her protected belief
LM I've heard a lot of theories in this tribunal. This was a staffing issues
CE if you had...
LM I'm not going down this road
CE I can ask the q and you can refuse to answer it - if you had linked your concerns with SM and its effects on the trans community that would have been a reaction to SM's protected sex realist beliefs
LM we weren't dealing with hypotheticals, we were dealing with the situation as it had arisen
CE no further q's
SD no re-examination
J so that concludes all the evidence?
SD it does indeed
[written submissions in by 9am Friday, oral submissions on each others statements and overarching comments and answers to panel q's at 11.30am Friday]

This bit was telling. He was about to get up from his chair and I refuse to respect the authority of this Court. Expect you know the armed struggle is over.

Old school man living out his terrorism from years back. Cannot see that unless you love the Green LGBT groups you are cast out of the Arts in Ireland. It’s a total circle ⭕️ of grift and black balling and incompetence.

OP posts:
Lunde · 19/11/2025 17:50

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 19/11/2025 17:28

During LM's xe I kept musing on how important 'inclusion' seems to be to BFF, but 'diversity' seems to have a very narrow scope, and doesn't extend to people holding different views from your own, even when insisting how entitled to her views SM is.

Lets face it they only really think about "diversity" in terms of the TRA lobby - we heard nothing about making bff accessible for other groups (many disabled people could not sit in a beanbag in front of the bigly screen for example)

SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 17:50

ThatDaringMintCritic · 19/11/2025 14:22

LM I've heard a lot of theories in this tribunal. This was a staffing issues

Not clear if LM was referring to WORIADS as a 'theory.' Can anyone cast any light on this?

Thought he sounded pissed off at being dragged into this.

He’s been sitting listening to evidence.

He didn’t like his previous little safe haven for Sinn Fein and Trans politics being in the spotlight. So he didn’t like Naomi’s theories.

Sara challenged them all - and they said how very dare she. Well she dared!

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DrRevProfCriticalConditionETC · 19/11/2025 17:59

SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 17:48

This bit was telling. He was about to get up from his chair and I refuse to respect the authority of this Court. Expect you know the armed struggle is over.

Old school man living out his terrorism from years back. Cannot see that unless you love the Green LGBT groups you are cast out of the Arts in Ireland. It’s a total circle ⭕️ of grift and black balling and incompetence.

Do you mean he was about to get up out of his chair and walk out when he said 'I'm not going down this road' ???

If so, I bet that went down well with the judge.

ProfessorMyAmpleSheep · 19/11/2025 18:00

Lunde · 19/11/2025 15:42

I thought it was a stroke of genius to get CE to do the xe

LM was obviously all wired up for a blunt head to head confrontation with NC and I think he had prepared for this. It was probably also a blow to his ego that his examination was by the "junior"

Wasn’t it!? Right on both counts.

SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 18:02

ColadhSamh · 19/11/2025 14:31

Catching up with this. Interesting on page 40 of previous thread, the email sent by one Niall Donnelly.
Surely not the one and only Sinn Féin's Niall O'Donaighle who had to resign from the Seanad? Lots of cover up and unanswered questions around his behaviour.

Niall Donnelly is 'non-binary' Lola Petticrew's husband. www.thismodernlove.co.uk/lola-niall-ulster-museum-wedding

Circle jerk of complaints

OP posts:
SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 18:05

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 19/11/2025 14:30

To me the 'hope this helps' e-mail has clearly been solicited by the recipient

Does it show that the people leading the investigation were actively soliciting the right sort of complaint from others outside the organization?

Hope this helps email is from a non binary individual who worked with BFF in 2022.

They were a sock puppet to hide the fact it was an Outburst complaint in truth.

No did anything because they were (a) ignoring gross misconduct or (b) didn’t believe a word of it.

Mmmmm

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ProfesseurSciFiTitPump · 19/11/2025 18:10

Just to sum up, was there any complaint received prior to MC's meeting in the bar where he had a pop at Sara and then proceeded to instigate this, any at all?

ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 18:16

SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 18:02

Niall Donnelly is 'non-binary' Lola Petticrew's husband. www.thismodernlove.co.uk/lola-niall-ulster-museum-wedding

Circle jerk of complaints

Oh for fucks sake.

ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 18:17

ProfesseurSciFiTitPump · 19/11/2025 18:10

Just to sum up, was there any complaint received prior to MC's meeting in the bar where he had a pop at Sara and then proceeded to instigate this, any at all?

There was a comment on a tweet that MD had hidden right back at the start I think.

SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 18:18

ProfessorStlcakethereforeIam · 19/11/2025 14:50

A few things I need to get off my chest

SD calls Moyra Lock (ML)
[she is affirmed]
I just imagined someone solemnly saying to her 'you are a woman'.

Lisa Barros D'Sa* *- love her name. I don't know how people stop themselves making jazz hands after saying it.👐

To me Nick Wallis looks faintly like David Bowie in the picture of him that keeps coming up with the links to his blog. I always read his initials as north-west.

Feel unburdened.

Thank you for sharing: I hope you feel unburdened. 🙏

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