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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4

1000 replies

MarieDeGournay · 17/11/2025 14:41

continuation

OP posts:
Thread gallery
54
Madcats · 19/11/2025 09:53

The temptation to change my name for the next thread is great. I will NOT be nabbing Sc-fiTitPump !

Domesticatednottamed · 19/11/2025 09:55

"What are these artists thinking? Do they really think this is edgy and cool and not just tired and offensive? Nan Goldin did this topic more than 30 years ago and far better. I'm sure others have too."

I think they are just really ignorant, and they probably aren't doing any thinking, it's all about feeling and expressing* themselves. Except they don't really have anything interesting or ground breaking to express and art isn't all about that anyway.

The only insight we get is into their porn watching habits.

*yes I know 🙄

ThatDaringMintCritic · 19/11/2025 09:59

This reminded me of a debate a while back when a local town hall displayed artwork showing double mastectomy scars during Pride week. This was in one of the public spaces that people of all ages walked past. I wonder if there is a normalisation tactic in play here.

borntobequiet · 19/11/2025 10:00

CriticalCondition · 19/11/2025 09:44

It takes forcing women to engage in your fetish to a whole new level. How many women got their nails done but didn't quite realise what those hands had been doing.

Oh, yuk.

SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 10:01

CriticalCondition · 19/11/2025 09:44

It takes forcing women to engage in your fetish to a whole new level. How many women got their nails done but didn't quite realise what those hands had been doing.

This all day.

What Michele said was she suggested Sara and her have their nails done.

So she was proposing to her employee

  • that she says she knew was gender critical
  • that her hands were rubbed by a man who identifies as a woman
  • massaged like cows teats
  • in front of photos of him in front of cows
  • in front of a photo of him expressing his fake breasts

Sounds like the only thing that was happening was that Michele was harassing Sara due to her sex realistic beliefs.

ProfessorVegemiteandhoneyontoast · 19/11/2025 10:04

PerformativeBewilderment · 19/11/2025 09:38

I was really enjoying the butter chat until @SexRealistic’s Venn diagram brought it all together.

@ProfessorVegemiteandhoneyontoast your Special System for butter is obviously a result of your academic specialism. Of course, the post explaining it counts as publication, so have a PhD in time for the new thread!

Thank you, and good point about the new thread, I shall update my new status!

borntobequiet · 19/11/2025 10:06

Sounds like the only thing that was happening was that Michele was harassing Sara due to her sex realistic beliefs.

Totally. And even having only secondhand accounts of her demeanour under examination, I’m reminded of those bullies in school who, when challenged, reply with “What, me? No I wasn’t! I was only <insert name of innocuous activity here>!” - when everyone knows exactly what they’ve been doing.

MarieDeGournay · 19/11/2025 10:08

SexRealistic · Today 07:0
Oh and it’s sent to Falls Women Centre, Ardoyne, Sinn Fein. Naomi asked - so no DUP then? Michele said no.
Because the former ‘West Belfast Film Festival’ will only stand by their Trans if they are a Green trans. And the Board approved Michele to be in a promotional video endorsing Sinn Fein.
Ans Michele’s political statement supporting Green politics together with the fact that Orange Trans aren’t invited doesn’t raise an eye?

I don't think it's right to suggest that MD, for all her obvious failings, is biased in favour of Republicans.

I don't have the full list of recipients of 'that' email but I doubt if many of the are exclusively 'Green' - the Women's Institute most certainly isn't!

MD appears to have looked for extra groups to send the email to, and the ones she found were ones that presumably nobody else thought of including as they are not LGB[TQ] groups, e.g. Women's Centres in places like West Belfast.
I think NC questioned her about that - MD's answers were something like 'well they may be gay people there'-( I may have misremembered that).

By 'Orange Trans' do you mean Protestant transpeople? I'm pretty sure that they are not at all excluded or neglected by MD and the BFF, and were well represented by and in the various LGBTQ groups who got the email.

Not sent to the DUP? Given the DUP's attitude and policies, that would be a complete waste of time, wouldn't it?

OP posts:
Scout2016 · 19/11/2025 10:10

Domesticatednottamed · 19/11/2025 09:55

"What are these artists thinking? Do they really think this is edgy and cool and not just tired and offensive? Nan Goldin did this topic more than 30 years ago and far better. I'm sure others have too."

I think they are just really ignorant, and they probably aren't doing any thinking, it's all about feeling and expressing* themselves. Except they don't really have anything interesting or ground breaking to express and art isn't all about that anyway.

The only insight we get is into their porn watching habits.

*yes I know 🙄

I would say there is an arguement this artist has latched on to a man with mental health difficulties and exploited him as easy content, rather than him being a muse. It's not a couple of shots it's progressive and performative and when he moves on to the next project will Sarah be dropped. No more co interviews and spotlight.

I'm thinking of it the way it would be distasteful to take photos of people suffering from anorexia and call it art. Or those photos of Richie Manic's self harm. There should be a moral duty of care.

And if it is just feeding Sarah's fetish, at what point does fetish become a mental health issue?

I don't particularly have any sympathy for Sarah and for all I know he will never have any regrets and is living his best life. Just musing. If the artist had taken photos of himself it would be clearer cut.

ProfLargofesse · 19/11/2025 10:13

I'm just going to do my review of MTM/ KP testimony as an aide memoire and hope that I have remembered it correctly. I know the team will help me out.

MTM worked hard to appear reasonable and responsible as NC began and had clearly rehearsed her answers to some degree.

She knew not to be truculent or bolshy and, I think, was in court for the last bit of MD's testimony so would have seen how bolshy comes off badly (it seems that they can listen in to others before giving testimony as evidenced by MC earlier) and was wise enough to realise she needs to guard herself against that.

So in the first questioning she was conciliarity – she conceded that the aspect of the contract which precluded voluntary work was really about second jobs and not about wearing a high viz jacket for a couple of hours.

Until Lucy Baxter raised the issue at the Board Meeting in May she was unaware (so no damage to reputation really given the board hadn't even heard about it).

Once the board was triggered and then further agitated by MC she asked MD to check employment contracts which suggests they had realised, from advice given, that they didn't have anything in existing contracts to sack SM for misconduct so wanted to update for future. Nothing they can do currently about SM because there were no complaints.

However, with MC agitating the board felt they had to do more and so needed to gather complaints to justify an investigation.

In the secret meaning they agree that it is only a matter of time before they get complaints anyway so MD starts thinking she can prompt them and announces that she has been toying with the idea of an event with the Bigly Screen at Pride so she can set this in motion and see what happens.

The next day she gets mailing list for LGBT groups from SM and announces the plan for this event in a very unlikely manner, asking for their input on film choice as a collaboration (very unbelievable).

There are no vaild responses to this request, no suggestions of films or comment on the event itself but three complaints in quick succession from Outburst who BFF have not worked with in nearly 15 years and two other complaints all written in similar style and in such a way that suggests there has been back-channel prompting.

Another secret complaint is 'alleged', we don't know the detail, by a filmmaker and MC puts it to MTM that this would be gross misconduct if true and immediate suspension warrented. MTM rather weakly claims it was only alleged, SM was on sick leave anyway. We can infer they knew it was manufactured but didn't need to prove it, only to have it as a complaint to justify i/x.

Based on advice the complaints meant they could go ahead witg an investigation and to look squeaky clean they hired an outside company TP to do the dirty work, as it were.

TP based the rationale for a i/x solely on the word of MD. They didn't ask for supporting evidence nor did they take notes of said meeting.

KP from TP asserts she has experience and is senior whilst also asserting she is not senior. Her boss is not giving evidence so we can infer from that that the R Counsel don't think it wise to ask him questions.

Not sure what the 5 day appeal email thing was about.

As i/x is being set up SM is told she can't have anyone with her in interview because she can only have a union rep or a current colleague. Which is a chocolate tea-pot situation so she won't agree to interview.

SM sets up grievance procedure and out of revenge BFF agree in a secret meeting on June 28 is that there real concern is that SM might refuse to work with Trans folk. Totat speculation on my part is that MD, to keep on side with MC, spiced the pool with an anecdote about SM walking past a trans identifying male artist hosting his own exhibition in the foyer of their building by claiming she doesn't want to get nails done by 'it'. Board are outraged and think that if she won't work with Trans this amounts to gross misconduct. NC has revealed that MD anecdote is untrue. They had to walk passed a big photo of pornified male fetish breast-feeding and it is very believable that SM would say she wouldn't want to get her nails done by 'it' meaning the artwork.

Grievance process means i'x can't go forward.

TP were being told what to say by LCD and MTM and that the David guy who won't testify was much admired for his willingness to do what he was told but couch in in HR speak and process so that it all looked above board. It came off as this is where the admiration lay, his ability to fancy up the stitch up.

SM was put on stat sick pay straight away unlike previous example where BFF had been v generous. She was locked out of building, web page removed, locked out of emails etc. She was de facto suspended all with board approval because they are used to letting MD do whatever she wants. The only email MD sends with details of her actions was to let them know after secret meeting that she'd set things in motion and sent THE EMAIL.

When asked about her understanding of the issues at had MTM proclaimed haughty no interest. I am above such things. This came across as total bullshittery.

As NC presented evidence that she thought she had kept her hands clean from she gets messier and messier and demonstrates that she has perhaps skated through her professional career by avoiding thinking too hard about anything other than making sure number 1 looks professional enough on the surface. Probably took the board role because quite glam to be associated with a film fest and MD flatters up and manipulates board to her will so all perfectly easy under normal conditions.

Domesticatednottamed · 19/11/2025 10:17

Scout2016 · 19/11/2025 10:10

I would say there is an arguement this artist has latched on to a man with mental health difficulties and exploited him as easy content, rather than him being a muse. It's not a couple of shots it's progressive and performative and when he moves on to the next project will Sarah be dropped. No more co interviews and spotlight.

I'm thinking of it the way it would be distasteful to take photos of people suffering from anorexia and call it art. Or those photos of Richie Manic's self harm. There should be a moral duty of care.

And if it is just feeding Sarah's fetish, at what point does fetish become a mental health issue?

I don't particularly have any sympathy for Sarah and for all I know he will never have any regrets and is living his best life. Just musing. If the artist had taken photos of himself it would be clearer cut.

Yes, very good points.

ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 10:28

Lisa Barros D'Sa giving evidence

ProfessorEmeritusVeraAtkins · 19/11/2025 10:32

I'm beginning to think that 'queer feminist' is synonymous with 'kinky male'.

ProfLargofesse · 19/11/2025 10:33

Boy oh Boy. I didn't realise the women's groups SM called out in her speech were not innocent bystanders, as it were, criticised for the trans policy at LWS but they were THERE actively trying to drown out women speaking. FFS.

ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 10:33

ProfLargofesse · 19/11/2025 10:33

Boy oh Boy. I didn't realise the women's groups SM called out in her speech were not innocent bystanders, as it were, criticised for the trans policy at LWS but they were THERE actively trying to drown out women speaking. FFS.

I missed that! Bloody hell.

ProfLargofesse · 19/11/2025 10:35

This from X

Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4
ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 10:39

Screenshots

Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4
Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4
Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4
Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4
ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 10:39

Screenshots

Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4
Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4
Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4
Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4
ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 19/11/2025 10:39

SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 10:01

This all day.

What Michele said was she suggested Sara and her have their nails done.

So she was proposing to her employee

  • that she says she knew was gender critical
  • that her hands were rubbed by a man who identifies as a woman
  • massaged like cows teats
  • in front of photos of him in front of cows
  • in front of a photo of him expressing his fake breasts

Sounds like the only thing that was happening was that Michele was harassing Sara due to her sex realistic beliefs.

Sounds like MD was testing SM.

ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 10:40

At least there will be If they ever let them through the checker

ickky · 19/11/2025 10:41

From NW

This is scheduled to be the last day of evidence. We are expecting three Belfast Film Festival (BFF) witnesses today starting with Lisa Barros D'Sa (LB) who has just been sworn in. She is a co-chair of the BFF.
Naomi Cunningham (NC) will be cross-examining (xe) LB and Sean Doherty (SD) will be re-examining for the BFF.

NC morning LB
LB morning!
NC takes LB to her witness statement (WS): "Many groups in the women's
sector had criticised the input from the Claimant at this rally"
NC it's clear that what SM is complaining about in her speech is that the groups present are there "to shame and silence women"
LB "I can tell that SM is speaking in criticism of those groups and she has every right to do so as a private citizen...
... - where it becomes and issue for the FF is when it intersects" with criticism of our organisation - I have no problem with her speaking up for her political beliefs
NC what's the problem with what she said
LB when it first came up in the board meeting it came up as
NC "do you understand the difference between reputational damage and people making unjustified crits of you?"
LB at this point it was something that was being experienced - "I make no judgment as to whether it was legitimate or justified" - that it was happening
NC the board did nothing at that point did it?
LB the next day Michele (Devlin - MD - BFF CEO) and Marie-Therese McGivern (co-
... chair of the BFF - MTM) and we decided to call the Equality Commission (EC) and look at whether "this came into conflict with Sara's employment... and exploring the situation which had arisen"
NC Reputational Damage (RD) is about justified criticism?
LB and how it affects an or
NC what examples did you see
LB "there was a sense that there were associations with... groups that disrecpted trans people that gave concern to some people... at least one person mentioned thaht in the email that MD sent to us. I know
that Lucy had mentioned womens groups, so those are the areas that I believe had been mentioned at that stage."
NC the women speaking at LWS had real concerns
LB they did
NC single sex toilets, men in rape crisis centres, induced lactation in men, mutilating young bodies
LB can't speculate
NC what I'm trying to establish is that these are real important matters
LB I have no problem with people speaking about important things that they infringe on peoples' rights

ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 10:42

@ickky

Thank god. Someone who knows what they are doing has arrived.

😘😘😘😘😘

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 19/11/2025 10:45

Scout2016 · 19/11/2025 10:10

I would say there is an arguement this artist has latched on to a man with mental health difficulties and exploited him as easy content, rather than him being a muse. It's not a couple of shots it's progressive and performative and when he moves on to the next project will Sarah be dropped. No more co interviews and spotlight.

I'm thinking of it the way it would be distasteful to take photos of people suffering from anorexia and call it art. Or those photos of Richie Manic's self harm. There should be a moral duty of care.

And if it is just feeding Sarah's fetish, at what point does fetish become a mental health issue?

I don't particularly have any sympathy for Sarah and for all I know he will never have any regrets and is living his best life. Just musing. If the artist had taken photos of himself it would be clearer cut.

Isn't "Sarah" the trans name for the artist? Or are they actually 2 different people? 🤔

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